Info on Keen Kutter?

[killa_concept]

So ever since I picked up my vintage GB double bits, I've been on the hunt for a good quality 3.5lb single bit head. Since swedish heads, let alone single bit ones, are far and few between, I opted to look for some other brands.

I happened upon this 3.5lb Keen Kutter which looked to be in very good shape and had a visible temper line. I decided to pick it up ($30), and was curious if anyone had any information about this brand. All I've really found was the wikipedia page which said that it was Simmons Hardware company's line of highest quality tools and somewhat collectible. Does that mean it would be in the same league as older Kelly, Plumb or Collins axes?

The temper line/hammon is pretty visible in this shot:

Sort of angled to see the blade geometry:

 

[Carolina River Rat]

Keen Kutter pocket knives were great, so I'm betting the axe is good too. Not sure of the collector value, if any. Is that a crack forming at the front of the eye?

 

[killa_concept]

Keen Kutter pocket knives were great, so I'm betting the axe is good too. Not sure of the collector value, if any. Is that a crack forming at the front of the eye?

Based on a couple other pictures I didn't bother to toss up, it looked to just be a fold mark to me, but I guess I won't find out for sure until it arrives. Oh, I guess I should have mentioned I picked it up online... I've hit a few antique stores, pawn shops and numerous garage sales around town, but have yet to find anything worthwhile axe-wise...

 

[Pipeman]

Keen Kutter knives always go for a premium price compared to many brands. Here is an excerpt from a site I found a while ago.

"One night in the mid-1860s, Edward Campbell Simmons, a junior partner at Waters, Simmons and Company, a St. Louis hardware wholesaler, went to bed agitated. He had just had a sales call with the manufacturer of the wildly popular Lippincott axe, whose thin blade worked best on soft woods—the manufacturer had refused to reduce Simmons’ price to a competitive rate. Simmons woke up with a start and, in the middle of the night, began to whittle a prototype of an even thinner axe.

As Saunders Norvall, who spent 30 years working for Simmons, wrote in his book, “Forty Yea...rs of Hardware,” “When it was finished to [Simmons’] satisfaction, without any premeditation, he wrote in pencil on the fresh pine wooden axe: Keen Kutter. The next day he started out to find a manufacturer who would make his new axe, and he succeeded."

That manufacturer was Isaiah Blood of Bollston, New York. Simmons ordered 24,000 of his new axes from Blood, and they sold out quickly. Keen Kutter axes were an instant hit."

Best regards

Robin

 

[killa_concept]

Keen Kutter knives always go for a premium price compared to many brands. Here is an excerpt from a site I found a while ago.

. . .

Best regards

Robin

Well that's certainly comforting to read! Many thanks for posting this tid-"bit" (pun totally intended). Yeah - from the pictures, the axe looked like it had a very nice thin bit, which I'm pretty fond of as it excels on the sort of woods we have around here in western Oregon. It's part of the reason why I prefer GB to Wetterlings actually....

 

[Pipeman]

Killa, I meant to add, great score, very nice, clean, quality head.

Best regards

Robin

 

[Steve Tall]

These are some of the many axes shown in Keen Kutter's 1912 catalog.
(Note that the prices back then were around $18 per dozen axes.)

Killa, yours looks like the No. 101 Dayton (Wide Head) pattern shown on the right.

The entire catalog is available at
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/kkno.776catalogpart118.9mb.pdf

Courtesy of Rose Antique Tools, which offers .pdf files of various catalogs, including Warren Axe and American Axe &Tool
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id225.html

 

[killa_concept]

These are some of the many axes shown in Keen Kutter's 1912 catalog.
(Note that the prices back then were around $18 per dozen axes.)

-IMG-

Killa, yours looks like the No. 101 Dayton (Wide Head) pattern shown on the right.

The entire catalog is available at
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/kkno.776catalogpart118.9mb.pdf

Courtesy of Rose Antique Tools, which offers .pdf files of various catalogs, including Warren Axe and American Axe &Tool
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id225.html

You know, I think you're quite correct - it certainly looks similar, aside from the more curved bit, slightly pounded poll and being bare steel (all just signs of usage). It definitely has the same shape and distinctive tapers on the top and bottom of the face. I doubt this axe is quite that old though...

 

[rg598]

They were made by the Simmons Co. which was founded in 1869. Their axes were very high quality, but were produced on a smaller scale than some of the other manufacturers. In 1992 they merged with Winchester. I think the Keen Kutter name first appeared int heir 1905 catalog. Back then all axes were of high quality. It would have been hard to compete in any way otherwise.

http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/

 

[cckw]

I think you can take about any older axe with a name on it and have it meet high standards. In my shopping I look for condition only as long as it is old. they were made in different times, when quality was more then a word the marketing dept liked to use.

 

[Dusty One]

Nice looking head.......Good find !

 

[DNK]

From what I've read, Simmons and Keen Kutter are held in high regard and said to be some of the best quality tools available in their day. Their motto was "The recollection of quality remains long after the price is forgotten." So true. I bought a KK hewing axe online and plan to pick up a good single bit and some other KK tools when I can. Nice score.

 

[omniviking]

You may need to go to a tool collectors group to find out a little better.

Simmons Keen Kutter made pretty good stuff. The were contracted from 1921 to 1929 to make the Winchester axes, the one you have has kind of the same lightning script that Winchester marked items with. Go back a little earlier and they used the logo with keenkutter and the triangle on it. Some time in along the way Simmon's had some money problems and was bought out by an old competitor / rival , Shapleigh's Hardware also of St. Louis.

The trade marks still shows up on stuff now and then. kinda like Marble's it will get branded on junk from Asia.

Get a handle on your old axe and get to choppin'. looks like a dandy.

 

[killa_concept]

Thanks for all the additional info guys! I got the head in today and it certainly is in great condition. The crack does seem to just be a fold mark (there's one on the top and bottom) and doesn't look like it'll be going anywhere unless I plan on beating on the poll with a sledgehammer. The profile is great, though the edge does need to be trued up and brought back a bit before sharpening in my opinion.

Giving it the old file test proved the edge to have a very nice temper and once I sharpen it up and fit it with a 32" handle, I think it should prove to be a nice user.

. . . Go back a little earlier and they used the logo with keenkutter and the triangle on it. . .

You mean like this other one I just picked up? Couldn't help myself

No one had bid on it, and I assumed it was because of the high starting price ($25 + 18 shipping). I didn't much fancy the handle length to weight ratio (~3.5lb on a 26" haft) or the head being so poorly hung (way too far up from the shoulder), so I contacted the seller about sawing it off and just shipping the head in a $5 small flat rate box... worked for him, so I snagged it for $30shipped.

I'm thinking about hanging one of these heads with a 32" straight and the other with a 32" curved then seeing which I prefer. The one I don't like, I might just give to my father or something :thumbup:

 

[killa_concept]

So I spent a 3 or so hours yesterday sharpening the first Keen Kutter head up... Decided to do it the old fashioned way using just a file, stones, and a leather strop. The edge hardness felt to be on par with my GBs just based on how well the file dug in. It was fairly slow going due to the thick cheeks and said hardness.

A LOT of metal was removed during filing - this is just a small portion of it:

A couple of people have contacted me about sharpening advice, and this is something I can't stress enough as it probably accounts for a large number of unsatisfactory edges and a lot of wasted sharpening time: when you're re-profiling, changing the edge angle, or really doing anything except just touching the edge up, NEVER move past your starting (coarsest) abrasive - in this case a file - until you're certain that a wire edge has formed. If you do, there's a good chance that the blunt/worn out edge hasn't been fully redone and you probably won't find out until your refined/polished edge isn't cutting like it should.

Here you can see the wire edge forming:

And mostly established - I used the back of the knife to pop the wire edge into focus:

Only at this point - when you're sure of a wire edge - should you move onto finer abrasives: in my case, a 6" DMT diasharp with coarse/fine (220/600), then a soft Arkansas stone, then stropping on leather:

And the results :thumbup::

 

[rg598]

That looks great.

 

[omniviking]

I wouldn't worry about that mark (crack) somewhere else a few months ago I saw someone post an axe with these marks and it comes from making the eye, driving the drift through, your axe as only been around 80 - 90 years it should be ok.

 

[killa_concept]

I wouldn't worry about that mark (crack) somewhere else a few months ago I saw someone post an axe with these marks and it comes from making the eye, driving the drift through, your axe as only been around 80 - 90 years it should be ok.

Yeah, it didn't look to be too big a cause of concern to me either. Thanks for verifying. BTW, do you really think it's that old?

That looks great.

Thanks - definitely a quality head and can't wait to get a haft on it. Same goes for the rest of the axes I'm working on though I guess

Oh, and here's the other Keen Kutter that I picked up. Looks to be an older one with the triangular stamping: E.C. Simmons Keen Kutter USA Black Jack. Looks pretty old but seems like it's in great shape - no real rusting and the edge on it is in great shape - fairly sharp and no real bad dings. Sadly, one of the sides looks like it's been used to pound nails or something, but that aside, a very nice piece:

 

[omniviking]

Well I think with the script used on that axe it was made in the 1920's to 30's maybe a little later. So 2011 minus 1930 + 81 years old, giver take.

The other Keen Kutter was made before that. Most other the ones with the big forged in logo say Trade mark under the bar, your's says Black Back, I have no idea of the meaning of that.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg83/omniviking/c36a_12.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg83/omniviking/8227_12.jpg

I have this old Keen Kutter hatchet and can't find anywhere ti get a close guess to the age of it

 

[killa_concept]

Well I think with the script used on that axe it was made in the 1920's to 30's maybe a little later. So 2011 minus 1930 + 81 years old, giver take.

The other Keen Kutter was made before that. Most other the ones with the big forged in logo say Trade mark under the bar, your's says Black Back, I have no idea of the meaning of that.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg83/omniviking/c36a_12.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg83/omniviking/8227_12.jpg

I have this old Keen Kutter hatchet and can't find anywhere ti get a close guess to the age of it

Thanks for the info and that's a fine looking hatchet you have there. My axe actually says "Black Jack", not Black Back - which I'm guessing is the manufacturer. I know there's a Black Jack knife company that's been making knives and such which has around for ages... I know that before Beckers were made by Kabar and Camillus, Black Jack was the company churning them out.