info on Koyo-Sha Green compound

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I just purchased a green compound from Japanwoodworker.com and I want to ask if anyone here has tried it. It is Koyo-Sha brand green polishing compound with SiC abrasive, or so it says. I am not sure if I can post a link to it, so just go to japanwoodworker and search for green polishing compound. It is not cheap, but it will last 10 or more years so it is a good buy to me, as long as it works good.

I hope to try it out soon, but I would like to get opinions and thoughts about it, especially if you have used it. Thanks.
Hytek
 
You'd be better off just using diamond paste/sprays/emulations at that cost.

It also doesn't say it's SiC anywhere on there from what I saw. it does say 1.5 micron.

http://www.koyo-sha.co.jp/e/product...olishing_compounds/steel_stainless-steel.html

Say it will leave a #600 grit finish

https://www.lfc.com.sg/products/detail/Koyo-Sha-Aluminium-Zinc-Buffing-Polishing-Compound

Aluminium + Zinc Buffing & Polishing Compound

So not SiC. Will be good for anything that's not super steel or not with anything with large Vanadium content.
 
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That is my bad. Does not say SiC, it says green carbides, which made me think of SiC. The k1 compound is said to be very good for hard tool steels.
I already have it, so I hope it is ok. I was mostly just curious. I have some great CBN emulsions I use for my nicer blades. I was looking for an alternative for my mediocre blades, chisels, and other tool blades. I will try it out tonight and post my results.
 
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Whether or not it has any other abrasives in it, the green means it's probably mostly chromium oxide, which has a Knoop hardness of 2955 vs. vanadium carbide at 2660. Green compound should work fine on even high-carbide steels.
 
Chromium oxide's Knoop hardness is around ~ 1400 - 1500 at best, on a scale with diamond as the hardest reference at 7000. That's talking about the green stuff we normally see in buffing/stropping compounds, also known as Cr2O3 or 'Chromium(III) oxide'. On the same Knoop scale, vanadium carbide would be around the ~2600 - 2800 value. But chromium oxide is only ~ half as hard as the 2955 value stated for it earlier. Not sure where that value came from, but there's no way it's accurate as compared to the given value for VC, which looks about right and fits with most of the Knoop charts I've seen. I'd have to assume the value given for chromium oxide is a typo or some other mistaken reference; maybe misidentified or confused with something else. OR, it's referenced in different units or to a different scale (this happens a lot). But it's nowhere near that hard in comparison to VC, and doesn't work very well with the carbides in high-VC steels (I've tried).

On Mohs charts, where the relative hardness of chromium oxide is more often stated for abrasives, it's usually positioned somewhere in the Mohs 8-8.5 ballpark, which puts it in a position less hard than aluminum oxide (Mohs 9+) and SiC (Mohs ~9.5).

There's such a thing as 'green' silicon carbide, which would get closer in hardness to VC. But still not quite as hard.

EDITED TO ADD:
I searched to find the reference in the 'CRC Materials Science and Engineering Handbook' stating the hardness of Cr2O3. In looking at a .pdf version of that book, it shows a table listing the stated numeric value of '2955' to be 'Knoop or Vickers'. I'm betting they've stated a Vickers value (completely different scale) in the absense of the Knoop value, for that material. There's additional ambiguity in not stating the specifics of the hardness measurement, which varies widely according to what value of load/force is used in the testing apparatus, to determine the hardness value.
 
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It looks like the method of production can impact the hardness significantly, with Vickers hardness ranging from 1020 to 3059, with vandium carbide being 2950. And most chromium(III) oxide is probably not made using the methods that enable it to reach such a high hardness.

I sort of had the same thought along those lines. The stuff sold as buffing compound, that we use for stropping, I don't think is manufactured in any particularly cutting-edge or exotic manner; else I'd think it'd be a lot more expensive. So far as I know, it's the exact same stuff used for decades as a pigment in other applications (paints, etc), for which super-high hardness likely isn't a prerequisite. The earlier linked hardness reference also classified the material as a 'ceramic', which carries some very vague and/or broad possible meanings about how it might've been manufactured or processed, and to what end-use it might be designed for.

The 'green compound' that we use is what initially spurred me on to learn more about abrasive hardness and effectiveness, versus the elements & carbides found in modern blade steels. Specifically, I'd tried to use it years ago for stropping and/or polishing bevels on S30V blades, and it gave me nothing but frustration in that application. I'd also noticed it struggles a bit on simpler mid-alloy steels like 440C or 154CM/ATS-34, as compared to using something like aluminum oxide for those. That's when I really started wondering about why some things work with some steels, and others don't.
 
It is the best green compound for use on a high speed polishing wheel. But... I think it would be a poor choice for a hand strop.
 
It's a bar compound to start so its designed to be used with a buffing wheel of some sort. The wax binder melts under the friction of the spinning wheel and evenly applies a coat of compound to the wheel. This compound excells in this role because it's long lasting and overall a very good compound for buffing wheels.

For all the reasons it's good on a buffing wheel are all the reasons it's not good for a hand strop. There is not enough friction from rubbing it by hand and it does not evenly apply to a hand strop. It's polishing benefits found on a high speed wheel is lost at hand sharpening speed and would compare closely to most any other green compound. So, for the price and difficulty of use on hand strops it's simply not worth the cost, you're buying a product design for one thing and trying to make it work for another.
 
For all the reasons Jason explained^ so well, the bar/stick compounds are kind of a pain to apply to a leather strop, and likely won't work so well because of that. There are ways to heat & melt the stick compound, to make them easier to apply; but the waxy binder is something that I never liked on a leather/wood strop in the first place, and I feel it just gets in the way of the stropping process, when done by hand. The compound loses a lot of it's polishing aggressiveness in all that waxy mess, on a strop.

I've liked using a dry, powdered green compound purchased at a lapidary/rock-hobbyist shop, sold as a tumbling medium for polishing stones. I bought it in a 1-lb. jar for about $18, when I purchased it maybe ~3-5 years ago. It can be easily mixed with mineral oil or some other suspension of your choosing. With mineral oil, it mixes pretty easily and can then be 'painted' onto a strop of whatever material you're using. The coverage is dense and very even and a little bit of the dry compound goes a very, very long way. I use maybe an 1/8th of a teaspoon of the powder, dropped into a disposable container like an empty margarine tub or yogurt cup. Add mineral oil and mix to a paint consistency, and use a small paintbrush to apply it. Give it a few hours, or up to a day or so, to dry. Wipe away the excess with a dry paper towel after it's dried.

On very hard leather or wood, like mdf, basswood, maple, etc., this method works very, very well, and it's my favorite method by which to use green compound.
 
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In referance to chromium oxide buffing bars, quality varies depending on the ingredients of the wax based medium or carrier. Another variant depends on the concentration of the crox as well as the punity amount as well as quality and verifiable particle size that is implied. It is true that a buffing bar should only be used with a high speed wheel.
If applied to a hand stropping apparatus the wax will prevent correct honing. Which brings up what surface is being used to apply the compound.
Stropping paste is a very different animal that what a buffing bar is. There is no wax in a paste. Paste is always a higher concentration of abrasive because of low speed and low amount of pressure. Quality paste should always be higher at a higher cost than a wax bar.
 
In reference to the original post about the koyo-sha green compound...
I have used it a few times and it is by far better than the several others I have used. It gives great results, better polish and faster than the others. It goes on the leather or wood easier than the others, but still takes a bit of rubbing. It is not cheap but the results make it worth it to me considering the bar will last an extremely long time due to its large size. I had hoped it would be a great compound, but I had doubts that it would be worth the extra cost. I am glad I was wrong about that.
I dont use it on everything though. I dont use it on super steels, or very high end blades, I used cbn paste for those. Hope this helps someone out.
 
The k 1 koyo buffing bar is actually the least concentrated crox bar that they , koyo, produce. The product today, is extremely overpriced because of who sells it.
Another point is that the actual size of the particles of crox ,abrasives in
The k 1 bar is not 1.5 micron. It is between .8 and 4 microns. The quality of this bar is great, if one uses it correctly. Meaning ,for use on the proper metal as well as its intended use. For deburring and not for metal refinement . The old Hand America , chromium oxide paste, which I believe is no longer in production, was for refinement of the metal. Today there are much finer pastes available for metal edge refinement.
 
By the way, if you are using cbn or diamond to refine your steel or metal, you most probably are aware of the cutting feel after the application. Crox has a very different particle shape as well as not being poly crystalline, thus giving the fi nished metal a softer feel in cutting applications.
 
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