Ireland mad knife laws, 5 years sentence!

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sampsa

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May 12, 2015
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I was just reading thread here where was photo's about peoples everyday carrying knives, then I remember what I heard early on the week in the radio. In Ireland you can get 5 years verdict for carrying knife! How that is possible in modern times learned country(that I thought Ireland was before this news item)? Law is not an remain from the middle ages but new one. That law is witch-hunt against all knife enthusiast, the message is that it is wrong to even have or collect knives, yes I know that the law doesn´t deny having knifes in home but the message is still clear, you are one the wrong side of the law if you do anything that is knife releted. What is the point and sentiment behind this? Have there been serial killlers that have used knives or what? Or are the officers being afraid sharp thinks that can penetrate their vest?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/print.html#sec9
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"It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place."

If you have a good reason to have the knife, you'll be fine. Same here in the rest of the UK. Folding knife under 3" with no lock and you're good, want more, have a good reason - as weapon carrying was prohibited many years ago to keep order in our over populated and violent isles.

Going fishing, carry a fillet knife, lock knife whatever, no one cares. Carry the same gear to the pub, supermarket etc then expect to get fingered by the po po.
 
O.K But officers have much of authority in case their check out your pockets or car, If he have a bad day or he doesn't like your face he can but you in to deep trouble, am I right?
 
sampsa said:
O.K But officers have much of authority in case their check out your pockets or car, If he have a bad day or he doesn't like your face he can but you in to deep trouble, am I right?
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In the UK (Republic of Ireland is different to Northern Ireland and indignantly separated from the UK) an officer is legally bound to search you ONLY if he or she has good reason or grounds to do so i.e you are a suspect of a crime or are behaving abnormal etc. If any 'evidence' is acquired through an unlawful search, it cannot be used in court. In the UK your car is also liable to be searched if they have reason to believe you are committing a crime or are suspicious etc. Our car is deemed a possession not property, so a knife kept in your car is the same as in your pocket.

I've no real bother with the knife related laws. They serve a purpose to preserve order. Adding weapons into the mix just makes it all mucky, so it's good the dipshits get fingered when they are packing a weapon or knife with no genuine reason (typical thug with a blade to fight with etc).
 
Samon said:
Lol. What rights are those exactly?
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The right to self-defense and having useful tools in your pocket if you happen to need them for some unforeseen but utilitarian task. My understanding is these do not count as "good reason" under the law, even if there is no malice in them.
 
glistam said:
The right to self-defense and having useful tools in your pocket if you happen to need them for some unforeseen but utilitarian task. My understanding is these do not count as "good reason" under the law, even if there is no malice in them.
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That and carrying the firearm of your choice.
 
We have the right to self defense, the ability to own firearms and can carry a pocket knife if we want to. Putting guns in peoples pockets will not make it a better place, despite what you think or feel.

(The entire British isles are 42 times smaller than america yet we have only 5 times less the population, just so you know how fucking cramped it is.)

Probably best you guys learn the society you're questioning before thinking everywhere needs to be like the wild west!
 
Frankly speaking you don´t have right to carry knife, so says your law. We here in Finland can`t either, but sanction is only losing that thing and maybe small fine. We used to have 8cm law in blade but that is now history, they take mine 3cm key fob and ticket is coming, so ridiculous:mad:

edit. I still carry knife everyday:cool:
 
Samon said:
We have the right to self defense, the ability to own firearms and can carry a pocket knife if we want to. Putting guns in peoples pockets will not make it a better place, despite what you think or feel.

(The entire British isles are 42 times smaller than america yet we have only 5 times less the population, just so you know how fucking cramped it is.)

Probably best you guys learn the society you're questioning before thinking everywhere needs to be like the wild west!
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Ok, no longer sorry about losing rights.
 
I think there is a difference in culture. The right to carry a weapon for self defense is not now a part of British culture. American culture is different is based on a feeling of self reliance. It depends on what is important to you and Americans will typically give up more security for mor freedom.
 
Samon said:
I've no real bother with the knife related laws. They serve a purpose to preserve order. Adding weapons into the mix just makes it all mucky, so it's good the dipshits get fingered when they are packing a weapon or knife with no genuine reason (typical thug with a blade to fight with etc).
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Samon said:
We have the right to self defense, the ability to own firearms and can carry a pocket knife if we want to. Putting guns in peoples pockets will not make it a better place, despite what you think or feel.

(The entire British isles are 42 times smaller than america yet we have only 5 times less the population, just so you know how fucking cramped it is.)

Probably best you guys learn the society you're questioning before thinking everywhere needs to be like the wild west!
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I am disappoint.

Where is the actual data and not the supposed speculations and feelings of "preserve order". US has much lower per capita violent crime than the UK. Remove a few major hot spots/bad areas of gangs killing each other in large cities that ironically also have all the strictest laws and the number plummets even further (ex most violence in Chicago happens in a small area in the south part of the city, most violence in LA is also in a few areas, etc). Guess all those wild west cowboys must be asleep all day?

That and if people were up to no good, would any laws really stop them? Pretty sure numerous laws were broken on both sides in the Boston marathon bombing vs the London subway bombings or more recent charlie hebdo shootings but these tragedies all happened anyways.

Also most of America is open land with population in larger cities/towns. Haven't looked, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of US towns/cities had similar or higher population densities vs many similar towns/cities in the UK.
 
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And a lot of knives are banned in NYC. Want to carry a gun there? Try to apply for a license. It's nearly impossible.

Here in the Netherlands it's mostly legal to carry knives, depending on where you are. Some places, like the town my work is in, have town specific knife laws. At my work, I'm allowed to wear a full size multitool with a good knife on it on my belt, but I'm not allowed to carry a knife (guns are outlawed anyway). A multitool isn't considered a knife.

These are country specific laws and usually they are there for a reason. Even if I walk around with a legal blade on my belt, I can get stopped by the police and they can take the knife away if they think that the reason I carry it for is illegal. Considering the amount of people per square kilometer in most of Europe and the present issue we already have, I don't think it's a good idea to let anyone carry any form of weapon. Now I haven't been to Ireland, but I do think the problems are the same as on the continent (of Europe), considering all the issues in London and other English cities.
 
poserman said:
And a lot of knives are banned in NYC. Want to carry a gun there? Try to apply for a license. It's nearly impossible.

Here in the Netherlands it's mostly legal to carry knives, depending on where you are. Some places, like the town my work is in, have town specific knife laws. At my work, I'm allowed to wear a full size multitool with a good knife on it on my belt, but I'm not allowed to carry a knife (guns are outlawed anyway). A multitool isn't considered a knife.

These are country specific laws and usually they are there for a reason. Even if I walk around with a legal blade on my belt, I can get stopped by the police and they can take the knife away if they think that the reason I carry it for is illegal. Considering the amount of people per square kilometer in most of Europe and the present issue we already have, I don't think it's a good idea to let anyone carry any form of weapon. Now I haven't been to Ireland, but I do think the problems are the same as on the continent (of Europe), considering all the issues in London and other English cities.
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It's possible, but remember that violence as a general problem is a complex issue with many causes, not one. Laws banning carrying of weapons (or items that might be used as weapons) are predicated on only one variable of violence: Access. The access to a weapon is only a very small variable in acts of violence, and primarily affects unplanned, impulse acts of violence. Case in point, 30% of the murders in the UK are committed using the attacker's bare hands. I got that stat from the Home Office directly. Premeditated acts of violence are even less affected by bans, because the perpetrated simply ignores the law, arming themselves ahead of time before going to wherever they intend to commit the crime. The likelihood of being intercepted by police purely by chance is almost zero unless there behavior is overtly erratic or suspicious. Thus a carry ban fails to prevent that crime, and also fails to address the reason why that perp is intended to commit his violent act.

Yes laws are usually made for a reason, but they are made by people who are professional politicians, not doctors, statisticians or criminologists.
 
It's a difficult subject with pro's and cons. Especially in the cities it can be an issue if people are carrying knives. More people that are cramped on each other can result in more violence and combined with any form of a weapon can result in the loss of lives. But protecting yourself is also a valid reason for carrying any sort of weapon. If I lived in a US state where guns were allowed I'd have a few pistols and assault rifles as well. It's just a difficult subject to discuss considering all the different subjects. I do have to admit I do have been fined with "carrying an illegal weapon" in my city for carrying a legal knife in an illegal area (forgot I had it on me).
 
glistam said:
It's possible, but remember that violence as a general problem is a complex issue with many causes, not one. Laws banning carrying of weapons (or items that might be used as weapons) are predicated on only one variable of violence: Access. The access to a weapon is only a very small variable in acts of violence, and primarily affects unplanned, impulse acts of violence. Case in point, 30% of the murders in the UK are committed using the attacker's bare hands. I got that stat from the Home Office directly. Premeditated acts of violence are even less affected by bans, because the perpetrated simply ignores the law, arming themselves ahead of time before going to wherever they intend to commit the crime. The likelihood of being intercepted by police purely by chance is almost zero unless there behavior is overtly erratic or suspicious. Thus a carry ban fails to prevent that crime, and also fails to address the reason why that perp is intended to commit his violent act.

Yes laws are usually made for a reason, but they are made by people who are professional politicians, not doctors, statisticians or criminologists.
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Thank you for that intelligent and reasonable response.

I won't even bother responding to those who believe more guns/weapons = safer population. It's just too complex and culturally imcomparable.
 
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