Is a knife still considered full tang if the handle portion is skeletonized?

[StrikeBack]

Is a knife still considered full tang if the handle portion is skeletonized? I've always considered it still full tang but I'm starting to wonder...

From what I've gathered in the the past is that the steel need runs from tip to the end of the knife.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Well, even if it's skeletonized there is still material connecting the rest of the tang together, as you said, from the tip to the end.

The way I see it, if a tang has been skeletonized then it has been done to save weight. If weight is trying to be saved then the "ultimate strength" of a full tang has been compromised by design in favor of being easier to carry or maneuver. I put that part in parentheses because it may be a moot point. In short, it may only take a 700lb gorilla to break the knife instead of the 800lb industry standard

I think that any tang made of homoginous material that runs the full length is a full tang. I will say that I will differentiate between a through tang (hidden but straight through) and a slab tang (full width with slabs attached), but not for any reason other than nomenclature. Both are plenty strong for what I require a knife to do.

 

[cbach8tw]

I consider it full tang based on the width to of the steel, where you can see it on both sides of the scales and does not compromise the strength of the handle. But it is a very interesting thought, it should always be mentioned as skeletonized for full disclosure to the buyer.

 

[Dangerously]

A full-length tang that is thin enough to allow the handle to fully wrap it (like an F1) is often called a hidden tang.

The issue is that “full” can mean any dimension. Full length, full height, full of holes.

I’d call it a full skeletonized tang to be clear. But I have full tang knives that I don’t know the extent of their skeletonization. I’d call them full tang just out of ignorance.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As Dangerously mentioned above, "full tang" is really kind of a shorthand that can mean a few different things. There are full through-tangs, which are hidden except for the end exiting the handle at the butt end, and full-profile tangs which follow the full outline of the handle and may or may not be skeletonized/milled/drilled. Sort of like how we use the term "scandi grind" as shorthand for "zero saber grind".

 

[22-rimfire]

Whether or not it's important to you depends on your use. Definitions vary, but these days a full tang runs the length of the knife and is usually visible around the handles. But this same visible tang could also be skeletonized and it is usually done for weight reduction and to achieve the balance the maker wants. For me, I have no issue with skeletonized tangs, but I would like to know just how skeletonized they are since the tang is usually not visible. All that said, for my normal needs, it makes little difference as long as the knife doesn't break with a modest impact such as batoning small wood for kindling. I seldom baton a knife anyway.

Stick tangs are full length tangs where the handle encloses it and the handle is often secured with some sort of nut on the end of the handle. Steel reduction is done to fit the handle over the tang.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I think a lot of the terminology has to do with the style of knife. Take the Khukuri for example: many, many khuks made in the traditional way are held together with nothing more than a tang burned into the wooden handle about half way down and them glued in with a natural epoxy. They will hold up to years of hard work.

However, most knife buyers require perceived strength for strength sake. A "full tang" generally means the tang simply passes fully through the handle instead of partially. As I mentioned before, we sometimes call this a through tang in khukuri circles.

Part of the reason we still consider this a full tang is they what most people consider "full" as in visible are usually called chiruwa.

Stick tang or rat tail tang kind of leaves a bad taste in our mouth. The tang of a khuk is so dang thick it's pretty rare to bust one even if its not chiruwa/full.

 

[Twindog]

It really depends on the design of the knife.

I have a 12-inch chopper with a skeletal tang under the handle. But the skeletal tang allowed the blade to flex inside the handle, and that flexing loosened the handle. I had to have another knife maker put on a new handle that was longer by enough to reduce the flex and now it works fine. But as made, it was a poorly designed knife.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Is a knife still considered full tang if the handle portion is skeletonized? I've always considered it still full tang but I'm starting to wonder...

From what I've gathered in the the past is that the steel need runs from tip to the end of the knife.

A reasonably well-written article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_(tools)

"A tang or shank is the back portion of the blade component of a tool where it extends into stock material or connects to a handle – as on a knife, sword, spear, arrowhead, chisel, file, coulter, pike, scythe, screwdriver, etc.
...
...A full tang extends the full length of the grip-portion of a handle, versus a partial tang which does not. A full tang may or may not be as wide as the handle itself, but will still run the full length of the handle..."

"Full tang" effectively refers (or referred) to the length of contiguous material incorporated into the handle as a means of leveraging the blade. The tang doesn't need to be visible or even extend beyond the gripping portion of the handle to be "full", just as far as where the last finger would typically grip. The tang length/shape could be adjusted to maximize leveraging strength or to adjust the balance of the knife. A skeletonized tang that extends the full length of the handle is "full", as is a tapered tang or a hidden tang.

In folders, the tang is usually quite short and requires the pivot and stop pins/collar/lever to transfer leverage into the handle.

How necessary is a "full tang" for a given task? *shrug* Hatchets and axes and hammers are commonly constructed with a wooden or plastic shaft to leverage the heavy and hard-impact blades. Depending on how you build it and how it is to be used, the tang can be quite minimal...

 

[eisman]

Is it still considered a blade if it has holes in it?

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Is it still considered a blade if it has holes in it?

You'll have to ask Sal of Spyderco that one.

 

[microbe]

Technically it is a full tang. but if the skeleton holes are hidden under the scales so they buyer cannot see them, calling it full tang instead of skeletonized full tang seems to be slightly deceptive.

 

[eisman]

if the skeleton holes are hidden under the scales so they buyer cannot see them, calling it full tang instead of skeletonized full tang seems to be slightly deceptive.

And yet putting holes in the tang to drive pins through would be just as disruptive. Should the buyer complain about that?

 

[microbe]

And yet putting holes in the tang to drive pins through would be just as disruptive. Should the buyer complain about that?

I call apples and pears on that comparison.
Pins or screws that pass through the tang are clearly visible on the handle.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think too much is made of the "full tang" need or requirement by knife buyers and owners. Knives with partial or reduced tangs are perfectly functional for their designed use. It is when you move outside the designed use that you could run into strength issues. Take your typical Mora.... reduced tang and few complain.

If you plan on beating the hell out of your fixed blade, by all means get a full tang with the steel nearly full thickness and width as the blade.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think too much is made of the "full tang" need or requirement by knife buyers and owners. Knives with partial or reduced tangs are perfectly functional for their designed use. It is when you move outside the designed use that you could run into strength issues. Take your typical Mora.... reduced tang and few complain.

If you plan on beating the hell out of your fixed blade, by all means get a full tang with the steel nearly full thickness and width as the blade.

And even the few people who do complain without justification Moras will usually snap at the base of the blade or have the handle break before the tang ever does. I actually think I've never seen a Mora that broke at the tang. And hidden tapered through tang billhooks get used for batoning all the time, traditionally. It's all in just making sure that the tang design is proper, and it's way harder to frig up a full profile tang design because you're making it so oversized compared to what it typically actually needs to be.

 

[Bill1170]

This is a good thread. I agree that a full width full tang with no holes beyond what’s needed to secure handle slabs is structural overkill. Since a skeletonized full tang is more work to produce than the full tang without weight saving holes, I don’t think many makers would intentionally hide the fact that they went to the trouble to skeletonize their tang.

 

[22-rimfire]

I call apples and pears on that comparison.
Pins or screws that pass through the tang are clearly visible on the handle.

But do the holes for screws or pins reduce the strength of the tang? I say, it is mostly a lot of concern over nothing unless you routinely beat your knife through wood that an axe should be used to split.

 

[microbe]

But do the holes for screws or pins reduce the strength of the tang? I say, it is mostly a lot of concern over nothing unless you routinely beat your knife through wood that an axe should be used to split.

Look, I bought a knife advertised as full tang. I beat it hard, it's a user. Zero complaints whatsoever. At one point I left it out in the rain for days, and I took off the scales to clean it up. To my surprise, it was skeletonized. All the better, as it weighs less. It's just that if the advertising would have said "skeletonized full tang" instead of "full tang", I would have known and would not have been surprised when I took off the scales.
Now skeletonized or not, most of these knives are beasts that are near impossible to break, an I am not claiming any weakness or whatever other complaints.
But, could it just be that with all the "buy full tang only because it is the strongest" talk in the knife aficionado world, the knife marketing boys keep skeletonization (is that even a word?) quiet, just to sell more knives to the die hard full tang clan?

edit; added "die hard"

 

[22-rimfire]

But a skeletonized tang that is full length is still a full tang. In particular, I am interested in details about Bark River fixed blades and yes, I would prefer to know if it is skeletonized significantly before I buy. But I still would probably buy anyway if I wanted a particular knife.