Is anyone frightened by your Kershaw Chive?

MatthewVanitas

MatthewVanitas

Go Army, Beat Navy!
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
467
Greetings. Recently bought a Kershaw Chive to fiddle with while I wait for my Kershaw Avalanche to arrive in the mail. Bought the Chive with the intent to use it as my EDC after I leave California, when a CCW will replace the knife as a defensive option. At that point, the Chive will become my "general principle" blade, dress knife, and gee-whiz letter-opener.

For those of you that carry a Chive, do you find that even a knife that small causes a negative reaction in some people?

I showed it to a few of my coworkers with pretty positive reaction. However, I work in a military unit, so quite a few folks carry knives, and usually far more intimidating ones than the Chive. The first two folks I showed the knife to had a Kershaw Blackout and a Griptilian. However, one of the lieutenants from NYC is of the firm belief that "only thugs carry knives", presumably making exception for the Ontario knife/bayonet he carries in the field.

I haven't carried a knife in a civilian workplace for some years now, but will be getting out soon. Does the Kershaw (assuming you don't go showing off the speedsafe) offend many folks in your workplace, or is it pretty much just a bother with the most fainthearted of coworkers? I would submit that anyone who is deathly afraid of 1.5 inches of sharp metal probably has some very odd issues, but some people still manage.

Thanks for any experiences you care to share. -MV
 
I bought my Chive specifically to not scare my coworkers (you would think that they are habituated to the sight of me pulling out a knigfe by now, but there are some die-hards). At first a lot of them still freaked, but I did show them that it's a lot safer using a knife for opening packages, etc, etc, than using the single-edged razor blades that they favor. It is possible to educate some people. The speed-safe does scare some people. I really find that the best small knife is the Spyderco Kiwi (you can skip the commercial if you want)--I think the design gives you a lot more knife than it appears. I know it costs more---but if I am going to be limited to carrying a small knife--it had better be the best one that I can get. The kiwi with the bone scales is enough like an old-fashioned slip-joint that people don't feel too worried about it.
 
A military unit is not a normal working enviroment, and most people will have bad reactions to knives of any sort if you specifically show it to them or wave it around. If you are quiet, people will not notice the knife.

The LT may have been given some sort of guideline on wearing a knife. Here at West Point, there is some sort of rule that we cannot wear knives except in BDUs. Of course, no one ever breaks the rules. :rolleyes:
 
I was prevented from entering a hockey game with a 2" Puma. Uncertain ot the exact model, but I had to return it to my vehicle. First 'Orange Alert' day and I show up preparing to terrorize an arena full of stick-weilding thugs with knives on their feet armed with a cigar-cutter! What was i thinking?
This Christmas buy a few low end pocketknives for your fellow workers and fearfuls to introduce them to your madness. Bet it will be a gift they remember....I also bet they will carry them (and feel like Jim Bowie) as they suddenly find how useful it can be to open other presents.
 
Said NYC Lt isn't replying based on any unit guidance (I've been an officer in this unit for two years and never heard any knife guidance), but was just reacting based on his regional/cultural background. Similarly, you meet a variety of people in the military who think that civilians shouldn't own guns. Fortunately, these people are outweighed by the strong Southern and Hispanic populations in the Marines, but probably less so in other services.

I have only once had an issue carrying a knife in the military. I visited the MCRD San Diego (USMC West Coast Boot Camp) to see the Marine Museum. Got stopped by a local gunny, who advised me to hide my Delica deeper in my pocket because "SgtMaj doesn't approve of knives on the base". Perhaps the SgtMaj is anti-knife, but it's probably more likely that he's concerned about recruits committing suicide. Of course, there are still knives in the kitchens, high windows to dive from, and a quick-moving or light fingered recruit can either steal a loose round or quickly get his rifle under his chin on the range.

Only only really bad, and very surreal, anti-knife experience. This one probably rates a separate post someday. Long story short, we were in Kuwait in March 2003, preparing to cross the border. I was detached to a grunt unit, so among people I hadn't worked with previously. One day two kids got in a fight over a spaghetti MRE, and one stabbed the other in the gut, wounding him badly enough to be MedEvac-ed to Germany. Later that week, one kid stabbed another in the leg in what both swore was a knife-sharpening accident caused by an ill-timed sneeze (no joke, that was their story).
A couple days after these incidents, I walk into the hooch, and there are Marines lined up out the door. The Company 1stSgt says "Sir, do you have any kives?" I tell him that I have my Leatherman and Ka-Bar, and he says "then it has to go in the box sir, you'll get it back after the war". I told him that was ridiculous, and asked what was going on. Turns out someone higher up had ordered a knife turn-in. All the guys in the company lined up and dropped all their knives in an MRE box to be stored until the end of the deployment. I checked out the box, and it was mostly crap: junk hunting knives, couple cheap kukris, a 2' sheet-metal katana bought for $9 at a gun show. I asked the 1stSgt "How can they turn in their bayonets and Ka-Bars? Those are serialized weapons signed to them individually."
He replied "Oh no sir! They keep their issue gear, we're just collecting personal weapons."

So, to summarize: about to engage in a major ground offensive, two knife fights in a week in a border staging camp, so they take away everyone's SAK, hunting knife, etc. but leave them their issue Ka-Bars, bayonets, and official issue Leathermen and Benchmade autos. Not to mention these same people are carrying M4s, M249 light machineguns, and in many cases manning a 25mm chaingun in their vehicle. "Common sense is an uncommon virtue"

Since posting this, I've been reading everyone's description of workplace issues in their offices, factories etc, and it's rather depressing really. I only once got flack for carrying a knife as a civilian, using a cheap 4" folder to open a 50lb sack of sugar. The 18yr old girl who was upset by it carries a razorblade for self-defense (by her own admission) has a criminal record, and has a child by a man who is currently incarcerated. Nothing like being condemned by the morally superior.

Sorry to distract the topic so far from the issue of the Chive, but just had to rant a bit. I'll try and put together my "knives and the military workplace" into a more cohesive posting later. In the meantime, still appreciate your Chive stories. -MV
 
unfortunately, the story sounds like one that wouldn't change no matter which country's military you belong to
i'd personally just court martial the SOB who stabbed the other guy and discharge him
i'd think having stiff penalties for knife misuse (like docking of wages, extra duties) would be more effective
but nooo, the brass love to "be sure"
sheesh

anyway, people aren't afraid of my knives
they're afraid of me :D :D :D

just the way it should be ;)
 
I always have a few knives on me. It has always puzzled me to notice reactions of the public when a knife is opened.

My main carry knife is a personal folder I made for myself. It has a 2 and 7/8" Wharncliff blade on it and I made it with a liner lock and a thumb stud for easy opening. Opened it is just shy of 7" long. Just flicking it opened in public like I did in a Big Lots parking lot to whittle one day while waiting for my wife to return to the car from shopping can and has drawn gasps from people.

I think it is the one hand thing that gets their attention. I can carry my Marbles Tear Drop Slip Joint knife that is a two blade pretty much the same length as my one hand personal and it gets no attention at all in public when I use it. I pulled it out one night to use to cut into a steak because the waiter never brought me my knife and no one even blinked. But I believe it it had been a one hander that opened and clicked as the lock engaged or a Ken Onion assisted opening knife by Kershaw that people would have noticed and gasped or reported it to their waiter.

As for the Chive being scarry. You can barely skin an onion with a Chive. (Pun intended) But, the assisted opening thing gets people's attention in public and the fact that new out of the box the Kershaw knives are pretty much the equal to carrying a pocket razor can make them dangerous if you loan it to someone and they don't know that it will open itself somewhat.

My wife nearly cut herself the first time she used her Chive and then she had me remove the assisted opening mechanism out of it completely for her. She likes it better as a one hand thumb stud knife as opposed to the torsion bar helping out. I have since done the same thing to my Scallion. I even removed the flipper off of it and drilled a hole in the back of the blade so the detent ball would function on the lock. Now it is no different than any other one hand thumb stud knife but it still gets people's attention when I open it in public.
 
My experiences have been somewhat different. Instead of that whole one-handed opening, flicking, spring assist, I get look just because I have one. Maybe being underaged and living in an state where weapons are looked down upon by the general public (also am a former skateboarder, so I guess I still may have a punky look to me).
 
Never scared anyone with my Chive. In fact, everybody who sees it finds it cute - and that auto opening feature is considered "cool" :)
Of course, this could be due to the fact that I'm not living in a very "civilized" country, and anyone can carry a folder here without lifting eyebrows.
 
I was worried about the same issues with carrying a Chive in the workplace. I went with the red smoke model as it looks a little less threatening. So far no problems but I also try to keep a low profile when using it for even the most mundane tasks.
 
Well MV, not a Chive in my case (I lost mine :grumpy: & replaced it with a Leek, my EDC so far) but still sometimes I feel kind of :eek: looks around me when I use it in my workplace. Seems that many people feel dissappointed with the idea of how-a-nice-guy-like-me carries a knife; even my boss one day started to warning some of my female co-workers about how dangerous I am after he saw my Leek on my desk (****** sense of humor :barf: ). They don't know what else I have at home :D .
 
I had a scallion which was a neat little work tool for opening boxes and those clear hard plastic things that electronics parts come in. But opening it made other people here jumpy so I now carry something that opens quieter.
 
Goodness! What a fearful society we live in!
People afraid of knives....people afraid to show that they have a knife to the extent that they purchase knives that seem less threatening....
I suggested earlier that we each go out and purchase some inexpensive folders and give 'em out as Christmas gifts or Trick or Treats or whatever excuse.
There is a German saying: "The farmer won't eat what the farmer doesn't know." which can apply here. Imagine all the fraidies having their own little pocket knife to perform those tasks which previously had been relagated to the 'thug' with the knife. Pretty soon they will be finding things to cut and asking you where to buy better knives or they think it would be a cool gift for Uncle Bob or they are going camping or hunting and want a bigger blade as their fear decreases and their confidence level (and rebeliousness) increases. Pretty soon it will be a movement and legislation will be passed requiring every person to carry a bladed tool and.....well, you know the rest.
Now y'all get out there and lets get started. I did this last year by giving out about 8 little Chinese keychain folders from wallyworld that cost me about of $1.25 each. 3 went to people who had never carried a knife before. I know at least 2 are still on keychains and one is in a car console.
Spread self reliance! Increase confidence! Imagine a world of empowered people!
This coming from a guy who owns 4 swords in addtion to the various and myriad smaller blades.
 
Any of you watch the Pring-Wilson trial on Court TV? Pring-Wilson was a Harvard student who defended himself with his Spyderco 4" folder one night after drinking a couple rounds at a pub and while walking home.

The story is long and you can read about the whole thing on the court tv web site if you don't know about it.

Anyway, he was accused of murder and tried in court. Things were ok until the prosecutor made him about to be 'looking for a fight' by always carrying such a knife around. Lawyer after lawyer chewed him up and down both in the court room by the prosecutors and then again publically by the hosts of the program over that knife he carried.

They went into all kinds of detail as to why this act of carrying such a concealed weapon ready to use on others was such a dangerous sign of impending conflict in our society. A subconscious desire to act out with the weapon was suggested by the prosecuters for even wanting to carry such a knife on your person. They made out that Spyderco Tactical folder with a 4" blade to be something that shouldn't be allowed in our country.


This guy, Pring-Wilson was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter and sent to jail for 6 to 8 years for defending himself against two attackers late at night while walking home. One of the two guys he was defending himself against died in the fight from stab wounds.

Go figure. You can be walking home one second and be on your knees getting the sh&% beat out of you at midnight in the next by two guys obviously out looking for trouble, both with criminal records, one a bouncer at a local pub who just got bailed out for another assault that very afternoon, and defend yourself the only way you have and be found guilty of misconduct in the publics eyes. Then you will be tried and convicted of manslaughter and made out to need mental help because of an innate desire to carry such a deadly weapon on your person to kill your fellow man. Among other parts of his punishment he'll be receiving counseling for his mental problems for that knife he carried. Think about that for a while and you'll get really disturbed.

HELL YES I'M FRIGHTENED OF WHAT I CARRY! Any of you guys ever use that tactical knife you carry to defend yourself in a fight you better be prepared to be made out to be nothing less than the worst skum to walk the earth by prosecutors, especially if it has a black finish to be concealed better, a near double edge, almost a switchblade in how fast you can get it out, and if it is carried by law enforcement because it is known to be well made. Everyone of those things mentioned above and more was used against Pring-Wilson to send him to jail. Everyone of those above mentioned features will be used against anyone from now on thanks to this recent trial. That is the country we live in.
Don't believe me? Go read the story. http://www.courttv.com/trials/pring-wilson/101304_verdict_ctv.html
 
It just goes to show that you have absolutely no right to defend your own life in this country. If he would have killed them with his bare hands, he still would have been prosecuted and, perhaps, convicted, the knife just made it an easy cakewalk for the prosecution.

It's the way scared and afraid people think these days. Whatever happened to being responisble for your actions and protecting yourself?... Oh yeah, the government is responsible for our actions and the govt. will protect us from each other. :barf:
 
The circumstances of the Pring-Wilson case are more complicated than the description above. (There is also a discussion of it in Practical Tactical.) That he changed his story every time he told it didn't help him, either. This makes it hard to evaluate the effect his knife had on the verdict.
 
I found it very odd that "Pring-Wilson" typed into the search engine brings up only this thread, and "Pring Wilson" brings up no matches. I would have imagined that the trial would have been discussed extensively on this site.

In any case, agree with the two previous posters that the Pring-Wilson trial has a lot more to it than mentioned here. There's a pretty good discussion in the "Legal" section on the firearms website www.thehighroad.org:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=105131&highlight=pringwilson

Whatever the case may be, a reasonble number of people seem convinced that Pring-Wilson drunkenly accosted several (admittedly sketchy) individuals who were teasing him, opened Colono's car door with knife in hand, and then stabbed him in the course of the fight. He then allegedly repeatedly lied about his role in the altercation, bragged about it to his girlfriend, etc.

Now, if Colono had run up behind Pring, attacked him using potentially deadly force to obtain Pring's wallet, and Pring had then pulled out a Sypderco Military and stabbed Colono, I imagine the case would have ended rather differently. Would people still have made a big deal about his knife? Possibly, but the circumstances would be much clearer-cut.

This rather reminds one of Massad Ayoob's continued columns about how your choice of firearm can be used against you in court. However, the net effect seems to be that just about anything can be used against you in some shape or form, but ultimately the actual circumstance should decide the verdict.

I'd say the major takeaway from the Pring case is that walking about drunk, accosting hecklers, stabbing one, and then continually changing your story tends to cost you a lot of sympathy points. Would Pring have walked had he stabbed Colono three times and slashed him twice with an Swiss Army Knife? Would Pring have walked had he grabbed a heavy stick off the ground as he approached the car to confront the hecklers, and then inflicted equivalentally deadly and repeated blunt-trauma wounds while "flailing" to protect himself?

So, the case is definitely worth noting, but unless Pring is speaking gospel and everyone else is lying, then it's certainly not a pure "sentenced for carrying a Spyderco" case.

-MV
 
The circumstanes are more complicated. That is why I provided the link. But the knife thing was made to be a very big part of this case and more than that the reasons, mentally and emotionally behind why a person would even want to carry such a 'weapon' came into question. Pring-Wilson's mental health came into question over the choice of the knife he carried.

This is a big case that will be referred back and referenced to many times in the future by prosecutors when a knife is involved in a conflict.

I realize that there are two sides to every coin. I just have trouble believing that I would have done anything much differently than Pring-Wilson did exept I'd have shot the both of them more than likely. But of course I wouldn't have had alcohol involved but even still. He had the knife on him when he was starting out the evening. It isn't like he put it in his pocket preparing for a knife fight or confrontation.
 
He was a student. Did he work somewhere? Did he as a matter of course carry the knife and (like many of us) put it in his pocket without concious thought along with his keys and change? Did he have to break down boxes, cut rope, trim plants, whatever and etc?
If not, his mindset was to carry the knife as a weapon. Whether for defense or offense, justified or not. He was carrying the blade with intent to injure IF there was no verifiable tracability of his carrying and using it as a tool and eventually his last ditch weapon of chance in a bad situation.
Sorry if this sounds harsh and I would normally side with someone defending himself but I see a good chance here that the mental issue has validity.
Had I been a juror, that is how I would have judged the issue.
 
This was a murder case. The prosecutors were going to use anything they could to get a conviction. The circumstances alone made a powerful case against the defendent. The knife may have played little or no part in the conviction, being an insurance policy for the prosecution, rather than the core of their case.

I feel this was irresponsible of them. They demonized a knife that others carry responsibly, for no good reason, distorting its impact on the circumstances of the crime.

But the fault lies more with the man who did put that knife in his pocket, knowing he'd be out drinking. That's not smart, either. Look at his own personal background, his educational level, his parents' careers, and you'll see: he should have known better.

Here's the link to Practical Tactical: Harvard Grad Student on trial for self defense or murder...
 
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