Is Boker doing a disservice to it's customers?

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robertj298

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Before I bought my first Boker I did a lot of research so I could determine which models were actually made in Germany as opposed to which models were made in China or made with parts that came from China. Very confusing and somewhat misleading. I now know how to tell the difference but certain dealers and ebay sellers display a photo of their Bokers for sale that are just fuzzy enough to where you can't read the stamps on their knives. I could pass it off as a mistake if it weren't for the fact that every photo of their Boker knives are fuzzy.
 
Yes, IMO it is a disservice, and I feel an intentional one. They seem to be using their "Tree Brand" label to sell some of their Chinese made knives and that is, like you said, confusing to most.
 
Yes I would agree with that. It's one thing to have a line made in China and clearly mark it as such like Buck does. Buck even lets you filter out the imports by checking a little box on their site which is nice. But for Boker to put anything other than German Made and Assembled knives in their Boker Tree boxes is shady to say the least. Even more so because some of the knives that have parts made in China but are assembled in Germany just say Germany on the blade but then the actual German made ones don't even say Germany but just "Solingen" on the blade and shield is pretty confusing in itself.
 
To keep this thread from being booted out of the traditional forum, It would be great if a Boker collector could post pics of the different blade stamps. I for one would like to see comparison pics to enhance my knowledge of this brand.
 
Yeah, I have a couple of the "hybrids". They're nice knives, but that is a deceptive practice. I got them in a trade on here from another member who had the decency to explain them to me at least. From now on, only "Made in the U.S.A." for me though!
 
From what I've read, I believe this to be a German made and assembled knife. Carbon steel.

BO7474AppOpen_zps886c64c5.jpg~original
 
If it says "Soligen" on the shield it is 100% German manufactured as of right now anyway. I didn't take this picture specifically for this reason but you can see the shield pretty good in it. I will try to get another picture up when I get home of the actual tang stamp.
 
Here is some info I've gathered, check out the knife world PDF bottom of first post:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...r-Remscheid-R-amp-H-Bokers-Improved-Cutlery-H

But as far as Boker being deceptive, they are upfront if you go to Bokers web page as to country of origin, I think the problem starts with uniformed vendors selling Boker's name, not sure if all are trying to be deceptive, meaning selling off the history that they know of Boker. I see all the time on online auction sites selling the economy Magnum line as German made, someone was selling one the beginning of the week as a " rare vintage Boker "
I think as consumers with computers, tablets, smart phones etc. it's easier than ever to make sure you know what you are buying, with Boker the shield is a safer bet on country of origin, rather than the tang stamp, shield should read SOLINGEN, if the shield reads Germany, it's been outsourced, Boker since the late 1800's early 1900's has been making assembling in countries other than Germany, after WWII the German facility was destroyed along with a good portion of documents and history, if memory serves me it was J.Wiss & sons( one of the many owners of Boker USA ) that really helped get the German facility back on track. Dating Bokers is also a problem because they tend to reissue old tang stamps for nostalgia, speaking only of the German made knives if there is no steel designation, means it's carbon, SS will be stamped, although I recently had proved this wrong with Boker as a knife I purchased was made with mixed parts stainless & carbon, but Bokers customer service ( Terry Tarhan ) provide excellent response and service, policy being if not happy they will replace with same new item, or a item of greater value.
Yes Boker can be confusing, but they make a great product with a great value, with a little homework don't get bitten by a uniformed or shaddy seller.

Pete
 
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Are all of your knives manufactured in Germany?
No. Boker USA, Inc. carries several different brand names, which are manufactured in various parts of the world. Please refer to the list below:
◾Boker knives: Solingen, Germany
◾Boker Arbolito knives: Argentina
◾Boker Plus knives: Taiwan and China
◾Cinch knives by Boker: Solingen, Germany
◾Magnum knives: Taiwan and China

^ v from Boker USA website FAQ page:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ice-to-it-s-customers?p=13304933#post13304933

I don't see any disservice by Boker whatsoever, however I do feel that shady sellers with fuzzy pics and incomplete listings are doing a disservice to the buyers, and Boker.
Boker seems pretty up front with their country of origin, but I too would like to see what the different markings are, especially if knives are being made in Germany from parts sourced elsewhere...I do stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
 
This is also included in the link I provided above but thought I would repost it here

Hermann Boeker immigrated to New York in 1887 and founded H.Boker & Co., Boker also owned Valley Forge cutlery and were also contracted to make knives for many other cutlers including Case.


H. Boker & Co's made knives for C. Platts & Sons in the early 1900's as Platts had been contracting knives out at that period of time, both companies were located in New York.

I found these list of Cutlers Boker has made knives for, don't remember where I found these or how accurate they are:

Arbolito - Spanish for "little tree". South American branch. Argentina.

Boker Plus - Boker's current "international" brand. Made in Tiawan and China.

Boker USA - Started in 1899 when H. Boker & Co. purchased the Valley Forge plant. Ended U.S. production in 1983.

Casa Boker - Hardware store founded in 1865 by Robert Boker. Sold knives and hardware improted from USA, Germany and England. Known as "the Sears of Mexico".

Cinch - Current manufacture in Solingen.

Cooper Group - Purchased Boker USA from J. Wiss in 1977. Moved production to Statesboro, GA. Ended US production in 1983.

Cyclops Steel - Purchased by Barl F. Boker in 1916. Sold in 1926. Titusville, PA.

George Schrade - Purchased by Boker ni 1956. Closed in 1958

H. Boker & Company - Founded in NY in 1837 by Hermann Boker. Imported cutlery from Germany. Began making knives in the US with the purchase of Valley Forge cutlery in 1899.

H. Dorwal - Knives made by Boker in Solingen, distributed by the Remsheid Bokers for the Canadian market.*

Heinrich Boker - Official name of the factory in Solingen. Opened in 1869.

Hen and Rooster - Boker made knives in Solingen for Frost. Recent.

Henry Boker - Brand name associated with the Remsheid Bokers. Mostly sold in Australia. Also used on many hand tools in that country.

J. Wiss & Sons - purchased Boker USA in 1969.

J.A. Henkels - Contracted knives made by Boker Solingen. Dates uncertain (1960 - present ???)

John Newton (Sheffield) - Made by Boker USA, Newark, NJ, circa 1906.

John Primble - knives sold by Belknap. Boker USA made knives sold under the Primble trademark from circa 1940s - early 1980s. Primble knives made by Boker have a star on the pattern number stamped on the tang.

Litton Industries - Owned Boker USA in 1968. Sold to J. Wiss in 1969.

Magnum - Knives made in China.

New Britain - Toolmaking company in Connecticutt. Purchased Boker USA in 1965. Bought by Litton Industries circa 1968.

Olde Stag - trademark patented by Boker in 1975 to identify knives made with "del-bone" (delrin) imitation stag handles.

Radium - Blade etch on some Boker knives from early 1900s. History unknown

Rainbow (Providence, RI) - made by Boker USA circa 1933-1954

Razor Steel - Etched on some Boker USA blades circa 1940-1950

Riverside Cut. Co. NY - Made by Boker USA circa 1918

Tree Brand - The Boker brand, USA and Solingen, as it is sometimes called.

Tree Brand Classic - trademark patented in 1974 - used on knife patterns that have been around for a while...

United Boker - Contract knives made by Boker circa 1984-1994.

Valley Forge - Company purchased by H. Boker & Co. in 1899. Closed original plant in 1921, but continued to manufacture Valley Forge knives alongside Boker USA knives in the Maplewood, NJ plant until the 1950s.

Whitehead & Hoag Co. (Newark, NJ) - Made by Boker USA circa 1900-1959

Wright & Wilhelmy (Omaha, NE) - Made by Boker and Ulster

1. Manhattan Cutlery Company (1868-1906).
2. Trenton Cutlery Company (1880-1906).
3. Regal Cutlery Company (1906).
4. George Dunbar (1901-1906).
5. Eclipse (1887-1918).
6. Hilton (1922-1924).
7. Edelweiss (1903).
8. Hardy Bros. (1884-1885).
9. Bicycle (1894).
10. O.K. Barlow Germany (1867-1917).
11. O.K. Barlow (1896-1917).
12. Red Injun Razors (1902).*
13. Celebrated Knife etched Bokers (late 1800's-early 1900's).
14. X (with an arrow thru it) Boker M R (1850-1875).
15. Baumwerk is Spanish for tree work.
16. Alemania is Spanish for Germany.
17. Radium (patented by Boker in 1904).
18. I'm not positive on these two, but I'm pretty sure Boker made them: W.D. Herbert and Dixon Cutlery Co.
19. Boker also made some knives for Case. The old Case radio or plier knives are identical to the old H. Bokers, as well as an old camp/scout knife pattern.
20. Prentiss Knife Co. New York (1916-1930) VF is stamped inside a circle (Valley Forge when Boker owned them) on the back of the tang.
21. Wyeth's Warranted Cutlery.
22. Bowen (1990's).





Just wanted to add you can't fault a company for offering a economy line, business need to stay competitive and I'm sure the non knife nut, compares traditionals to Taylor made Schrade and Rough Rider, it's a way to capture a customer, possible a starting point for a lower cost knife that will hopefully lead them back for a second purchase of a higher end product.

Pete
 
Stich2442 is correct when he says Boker lists the country of manuf. on their website. I have their recent catalog and that info is also listed on the front page.
It's what is marked on the knife that's in question.
Without the web or catalog info, how would you know where the knife was made? You go to a store, the clerk hands you a Boker Plus stockman, where on that knife does it say Taiwan or China.
I'd like to see pics of one of their Plus trads to see how it's stamped. I see them in my catalog but can't read the tang stamps.

EDIT....more info...
I just checked my Boker catalog for knives listed under Solingen Germany. The catalog states they are made in the Solingen plant.
The Classic Pocket Knives clearly show a "GERMANY" shield, not a "SOLINGEN" shield. According to the catalog, they're made in Germany, not Taiwan or China, like most believe. I'm more confused than ever now. :rolleyes:
 
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Here is my "Tree Brand" Boker Med Stockman. As you can see on the blade stamp, it just says Boker. No Solingen, Germany, etc... Also note the shield says Germany (might be confusing to some). There is no country of origin marked on the knife or the box at all. I believe this knife is "assembled" in Germany using parts from China. IMO that is somewhat deceptive. YMMV

 
eschwebach said:
Here is my "Tree Brand" Boker Med Stockman. As you can see on the blade stamp, it just says Boker. No Solingen, Germany, etc... Also note the shield says Germany (might be confusing to some). There is no country of origin marked on the knife or the box at all. I believe this knife is "assembled" in Germany using parts from China. IMO that is somewhat deceptive. YMMV

Click to expand...

This is from a early Boker thread, it's from Terry Tarhan of Boker

"Good question. Any of the Boker knives that have Solingen on the shield, and generally a higher price point, are the same knives we have always made, 100% from our Solingen factory. The ones with Germany on the shield, and sold at a lower price point are from Germany, but with parts sourced from China. These will start with an item number 1107... or 1102...
They go through all the same steps as a Solingen Boker, have the same warranty, and the same quality, and hand fitted.
Terry"

Pete
 
Stich2442 said:
This is from a early Boker thread, it's from Terry Tarhan of Boker

"Good question. Any of the Boker knives that have Solingen on the shield, and generally a higher price point, are the same knives we have always made, 100% from our Solingen factory. The ones with Germany on the shield, and sold at a lower price point are from Germany, but with parts sourced from China. These will start with an item number 1107... or 1102...
They go through all the same steps as a Solingen Boker, have the same warranty, and the same quality, and hand fitted.
Terry"

Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete. Now I know the difference between the Solingen and Germany shield.
 
Note that my stockman in post #7 has a shield without wording of any kind, yet the tang stamp has both Solingen and Germany, and the item # is 7474, therefore completely German made. Apparently shields are not an iron clad proof either.
 
Stich2442 said:
This is from a early Boker thread, it's from Terry Tarhan of Boker

"Good question. Any of the Boker knives that have Solingen on the shield, and generally a higher price point, are the same knives we have always made, 100% from our Solingen factory. The ones with Germany on the shield, and sold at a lower price point are from Germany, but with parts sourced from China. These will start with an item number 1107... or 1102...
They go through all the same steps as a Solingen Boker, have the same warranty, and the same quality, and hand fitted.
Terry"

Pete
Click to expand...
Thats a little hard to understand. If they are made in the same plant with Chinese parts with the same quality and warranty, why would they be so much cheaper? I would think the labor would be the primary source of the cost involved.
 
black mamba said:
Note that my stockman in post #7 has a shield without wording of any kind, yet the tang stamp has both Solingen and Germany, and the item # is 7474, therefore completely German made. Apparently shields are not an iron clad proof either.
Click to expand...

How old is that stockman? I think the shield thing is only for current production but how long ago it started I have no idea. From what I have read though I think if it says Soligen anywhere on the knife then it is a German made & assembled knife.
 
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