Is CPM3V worth the extra money over 1095 Cro Van?

Is a Mercedes or Bmw worth the money over a VW or Hyundai ?

Its really up to the person.


I don't care so much what everyone says is the BEST steel, i know from my own hard use what i need a knife to do and that's what i go after. I don't own any CPM steels but 1095 has never failed me and sharpens easily... but it does require re sharpening a bit more often than the SR101 on my rats.... Is sharpening less often worth an extra 100 on a knife? i think so. does that mean there is anything wrong with 1095? i think not. Its great steel for the money.
 
I recently received a GSO 7/7.

I don't have nearly as much experience as most on these boards, but I chose it over a ZT 0100, which is also in CPM-3V, for roughly the same price. I liked the thought of the extra 1.5 inches in blade length, and I simply could not find a single thing bad about the GSO no matter how hard I searched.

Having it in my hands, I can feel that the force is strong with this knife. The craftsmanship is excellent, and while I'm not going to put it through its paces, I have decided to make it my BOB knife. So, there it will sit until the SHTF, or I can't stand it any more and get the irresistible urge to use it... which I think may happen tomorrow... or possibly after I'm done with this post.
 
I don't the CPM3V is actually better. The reason being is I think there is a diminishing return when it comes to cost.

Simple carbon steels are my choice because they can be easily produced. I used folders in the 60 -75 dollar range because of the same reason. I travel often and when I take a knife I usually take what is cheap and what will more than cover my needs. Where those 2 points cross is where I choose my knife. All my favorites are Beckers. I don't need anything more. If I had the option, I wouldn't choose CPM3V or any other higher end steel because I wouldn't use the knife.
 
HardTripper said:
IMO its worth trying. I always say if you want it and you can afford it then buy it, but that's just me. I have 2 folders in cpm s30v and I love it, never really got the hard use of a Becker but for a 4 inch blade your probably ok.
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(Old topic coming back to life warning)
I posted in this old topic because this posts touches on something that has been on my mind. I own a bunch of Becker (and ESEE) knives in 1095 and have been thinking about a 4.7 or 6" Survive!. I don't pry with my knives, so outside of edge retention will I ever do something with a 4" knife (my BK16 or ESEE 4) to notice the strength difference in 3V?
 
C_Tanner said:
Whats so great about CPM3V? Sounds like stainless.
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Nope. 3V is not "stainless steel" by any stretch of the imagination. It is a fine-grained, high-toughness, eutectoid carbon tool steel with about .8% carbon. It's really very similar to 1084/1080/80CRV2 with a bit more chromium (about 7.5%) and vanadium (about 2.75-3%) added, to improve HT response and form carbides that help a great deal with edge retention. The "free" chrome left over after carbide formation does improve corrosion-resistance to a degree; it stains and rusts similar to D2.

Fuori said:
I don't pry with my knives, so outside of edge retention will I ever do something with a 4" knife (my BK16 or ESEE 4) to notice the strength difference in 3V?
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Maybe... maybe not. Depends on what you cut, how much you cut, and how often you want to sharpen your blade.

Strength is not about being able to break the blade by prying with it (which is frankly a dumb thing to do anyway), that's a toughness issue. Strength is about resistance to deformation... whether the edge chips, rolls over, or shrugs it off when it impacts something hard, like a knot in wood.
 
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As for 1095CV vs. 3V... it's a compromise. The short answer is, both work :)

Ka-Bar/Becker 1095CV knives are HT'ed somewhere in the 56-58Rc range, to take full advantage of the steel's toughness, offer decent wear-resistance, and be easy to bring to a nice crisp edge. They are coated, so corrosion-resistance really isn't an issue. That's a very smart and cost-efficient way to build affordable knives that might be subjected to outright abuse. :thumbup:

IIRC correctly, Survive! and most other semi-custom 3V knives are HT'ed to 60Rc. That's also how I have my 3V blades done. Why? Because 3V still has excellent toughness at that higher hardness, but also exhibits much greater edge-retention when cutting abrasive material. It is not much of a problem to achieve a truly crisp, keen edge on a 3V blade... it just takes a while.

The upside of 3V at 60 vs. 1095CV at 56-58 is, 3V will stay sharp longer. It also corrodes much more slowly.

The downside of 3V at 60 vs. 1095CV at 56-58 is, 3V costs more, and you do not want to be sharpening it with an Arkansas stone or a rock you found in the creek... it will take for-freaking-ever. You're gonna want diamond plates.

Full disclosure: 3V is my overall favorite steel. I make and sell a lot of knives in 3V, so I have a certain selfish interest in "promoting" it. But I also love my BK-16, which stays strapped to my favorite BoB... mostly because it's a fantastic design right out of the box, but also because it's easy to sharpen.
 
With all due respect James, I sharpen my 61 RC big Chris blade (personal edc) and my 58-59 rc 3v Winkler (tad edition belt knife) on smith stones (10.00 stone) and Japanese water stones ( dual sided 40.00$).



I don't even own diamond stones or diamond anything for that matter. I will say my big Chris blade is easier to sharpen because it's ground very thin.


Of the hand full of 3v at different hardnesses I've owned and sharpened, regular stones do just fine.


james terrio said:
As for 1095CV vs. 3V... it's a compromise. The short answer is, both work :)

Ka-Bar/Becker 1095CV knives are HT'ed somewhere in the 56-58Rc range, to take full advantage of the steel's toughness, offer decent wear-resistance, and be easy to bring to a nice crisp edge. They are coated, so corrosion-resistance really isn't an issue. That's a very smart and cost-efficient way to build affordable knives that might be subjected to outright abuse. :thumbup:

IIRC correctly, Survive! and most other semi-custom 3V knives are HT'ed to 60Rc. That's also how I have my 3V blades done. Why? Because 3V still has excellent toughness at that higher hardness, but also exhibits much greater edge-retention when cutting abrasive material. It is not much of a problem to achieve a truly crisp, keen edge on a 3V blade... it just takes a while.

The upside of 3V at 60 vs. 1095CV at 56-58 is, 3V will stay sharp longer. It also corrodes much more slowly.

The downside of 3V at 60 vs. 1095CV at 56-58 is, 3V costs more, and you do not want to be sharpening it with an Arkansas stone or a rock you found in the creek... it will take for-freaking-ever. You're gonna want diamond plates.

Full disclosure: 3V is my overall favorite steel. I make and sell a lot of knives in 3V, so I have a certain selfish interest in "promoting" it. But I also love my BK-16, which stays strapped to my favorite BoB... mostly because it's a fantastic design right out of the box, but also because it's easy to sharpen.
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Regarding 3v vs 1095cv , 3v does out perform 1095cv in every way except cost.

The edge stability alone is head and shoulders different, that means less deformation and ultimately less work touching up.


That said I still own two Beckers 14 and 2 and they get the job done and are a tremendous value. So it's a personal question I guess, for me having used 3v for awhile now I can see and appreciate the difference between them.


Some guys are more value oriented and I understand and respect that as well.
 
shinyedges said:
With all due respect James, I sharpen my 61 RC big Chris blade (personal edc) and my 58-59 rc 3v Winkler (tad edition belt knife) on smith stones (10.00 stone) and Japanese water stones ( dual sided 40.00$).

I don't even own diamond stones or diamond anything for that matter. I will say my big Chris blade is easier to sharpen because it's ground very thin.
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Thank you for chiming in ;) I admit to employing a bit of hyperbole to illustrate my general point.

You're absolutely right about thin edges... using high-end steel with high-end HT allows the maker to grind bevels and edges thinner to start with, without fear of the edge being crumbly or weak. It's clear to me that Big Chris and Daniel Winkler (among others) understand that very well, and take full advantage of it. :)

Not only does that help the knife cut better right off the bat, it also makes it easier to keep sharp. There's simply less metal to grind down.

Softer, weaker factory knives rely partly on thick edges for their resilience. They don't cut as well, but they're a whole lot less expensive to produce. That's just part of the compromise.

shinyedges said:
Some guys are more value oriented and I understand and respect that as well.
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Right on! My very first recommendation to anyone who wants a good sturdy "outdoorsy" knife, but doesn't want to pay custom/handmade prices, is always Becker.

In my sincere opinion, Becker knives are hands-down the best bang-for-the-buck bushcraft/survival/tactical knives available today.
 
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Full disclosure again... I'm not saying this stuff to kiss butt because I like Ethan, and the Beckerheads, and hang around here. I hang around here, and have met these folks because I just plain like Becker knives :)
 
You hit the nail on the head about edge thickness having a huge impact on sharpenability (<---is that a word?? Lol) and cutting performance. And I understand the purpose of the thicker edges in productions as well as their hardness ranges, everything has there purpose for sure.

I too agree on Becker being the best bang for the buck, uncle E puts out a ton of extremely practical designs and some good durable blades. My bk2 has been faithful for almost 5 years now and was my sole camp knife for many camp trips, it is what led me to bladeforums. So I have much love for beckers.
james terrio said:
Thank you for chiming in ;) I admit to employing a bit of hyperbole to illustrate my general point.

You're absolutely right about thin edges... using high-end steel with high-end HT allows the maker to grind bevels and edges thinner to start with, without fear of the edge being crumbly or weak. It's clear to me that Big Chris and Daniel Winkler (among others) understand that very well, and take full advantage of it. :)

Not only does that help the knife cut better right off the bat, it also makes it easier to keep sharp. There's simply less metal to grind down.

Softer, weaker factory knives rely partly on thick edges for their resilience. They don't cut as well, but they're a whole lot expensive to produce. That's just part of the compromise.



Right on! My very first recommendation to anyone who wants a good sturdy "outdoorsy" knife, but doesn't want to pay custom/handmade prices, is always Becker.

In my sincere opinion, Becker knives are hands-down the best bang-for-the-buck bushcraft/survival/tactical knives available today.
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But I also love my BK-16, which stays strapped to my favorite BoB
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So, if I can afford it buy one because I'll enjoy it, but if not I won't die because I have a BK16 strapped to my BOB?
 
Fuori said:
(Old topic coming back to life warning)
I posted in this old topic because this posts touches on something that has been on my mind. I own a bunch of Becker (and ESEE) knives in 1095 and have been thinking about a 4.7 or 6" Survive!. I don't pry with my knives, so outside of edge retention will I ever do something with a 4" knife (my BK16 or ESEE 4) to notice the strength difference in 3V?
Click to expand...

I know you said you wouldn't be prying, but what are your usual uses for a knife?

I can't think of anything I'd do with my bk16 that it couldn't stand up to.

With that said my 3v knives have been really, really low maintenance. They resist staining and corrosion better and hold an edge longer, in my own use. You have to ask yourself if that is worth the price.
 
Silver Needle said:
I know you said you wouldn't be prying, but what are your usual uses for a knife?

I can't think of anything I'd do with my bk16 that it couldn't stand up to.

With that said my 3v knives have been really, really low maintenance. They resist staining and corrosion better and hold an edge longer, in my own use. You have to ask yourself if that is worth the price.
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Nothing special. I won't even baton with something that size. I'm still considering the 3v and asking myself that question. I love my BK16(s) a lot.
 
In my opinion, 1095 is perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it at all, but I consider 3V to kinda be the elite version of carbon steel.

Previous commentators are correct though, 1095 is MUCH easier to sharpen. Mind you, unless you're out in the bush for a long, LONG time 3V will still be sharp.
 
I used my BK9 to chop MANY recently fallen hardwood trees over the course of 4 days. It only got sharper as the week rolled along.

Unless I am chopping a Buick in half, I am not sure what I could be doing with this knife that would break it. I am careful though and watch for knots and other hazards.

With that point made, I don't need better steels as the price would not be worth it. "Need" being the operable word--I am a knife Knut after all!! &#128513;&#128077;
 
as pointed out, there are Beckers in some exotic steels

the BK77 being a fine example

and it did not sell well for Camillus. at all.

now, KaBar went and did a special on the blanks they got, and a good price.

sold out in seconds. hard to beat that value... but that was on bargain based blanks

won't happen again

if KaBar makes a magic steel knife again, it will have a high price. market value.

it probably won't sell well either, because basically, people are cheap :D

the BK24 in D2 is an absolute bargain imho, but not a swift seller - price. stellar out of the box knife. doesn't seem to rust either, and i abuse it.

when it comes down to it, people like value.

exotic is cool, but if it won't sell, it's not worth making 1000 of and sitting on for years. KaBar is a large business making profit to feed employees. not a custom shoppe that does one offs and even small runs at higher cost (because they need to feed themselves too).

so, you make 500,000 1095s and sell every single one? yup.
 
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