Is it a Bowie W/O a crossguard?

[Joe Duder]

Is it a Bowie knife if it has no crossguard? Is it a Bowie if it has a single guard?
Or is it a Bowie if someone says it's a Bowie.

 

[marcinek]

Since the Forrest knife,

what many, including myself, believe is the sandbar knife and the original Bowie, then I say yes.

But, many, for some odd reason, believe a Bowie must look like the knife used in the entirely-unrelated-to-history 1952 movie The Iron Mistress.

 

[Ebbtide]

"Bowie" has been tacked onto so many knife styles that it's become a bit watered down.

First you'd have to determine what defines a Bowie knife.
A knife like Jim Bowie carried at the Sandbar Brawl?
Or at the Alamo?
Or at any point inbetween?

Or... are we looking at "A knife like Bowie's" that were manufactured in the years after his demise?
Or a knife like the one Bowie's brother described making for Jim?
Or the knife that Bowie's sister described that was made in Philadelphia?

No one knows.
We can believe what we want, can go with the odds, but we don't know.
The only eye witness' description of the sandbar knife was
"a big butcher knife"
It doesn't tell us much.
Especially if you factor in that butcher knives back then didn't necessarily look like what we call a butcher knife now.

I point the OP to Bowie knife #1 and the Tah-Chee bowie.

(my personal favorites)
Nowadays any knife can be a knife like Bowie's.


A bowie knife thread comes up at least once a month.
I've posted a bunch of links in July and August.
Sorry that I don't have time to look them up now.
But a search will reward you with some good reading.

 

[Mikael W]

Ebbtide said it very well and the guardless Coffinhandles are genuine early Bowies.

I recently got this modern reproduction from KSF and it's not very far from the Tah-Chee knife.

Needless to say I'm very pleased with this BR Rogue Bowie!


Regards
Mikael

 

[Joe Duder]

Wow! The knives you guys posted are nothing like the version I had in my head? Good stuff. Thanks guys. I'll have to look at some Bowie threads.

 

[Ebbtide]

Joe, take a look here.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1085586-wanting-a-bowie/page2

And I'll throw in a picture cuz I can

A jantz kit blade with my handle work.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

The best 'short' article I have ever read about the history of the "original Bowie knife" can be found here...

http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/bios/bowie/knife_like_bowies.html

A different article I read had quoted Rezin Bowie as saying that one time when he was using a hunting knife, his hand slipped on the handle, cutting his finger. He vowed that he would never do that again and had a knife made with a small guard to prevent it from happening again. So, in essence, from Rezin Bowie, the designer of "The Real, No BS Original Bowie Knife", a Bowie knife is any hunting knife that has a guard. It does not have to have a big flashy full blown cross guard. Just one big enough to keep your fingers from getting cut if your hand slips.

A synopsis of the tamu article is that the Bowie knife started life as a large, straight backed hunting knife with a small guard and developed over time into what is now called a "Bowie knife".

Based on what is in the tamu article referenced above, literally any "large" knife could be called a Bowie knife by a cop, with even the descriptor "large" being up for debate.

 

[Mikael W]

A different article I read had quoted Rezin Bowie as saying that one time when he was using a hunting knife, his hand slipped on the handle, cutting his finger. He vowed that he would never do that again and had a knife made with a small guard to prevent it from happening again. So, in essence, from Rezin Bowie, the designer of "The Real, No BS Original Bowie Knife", a Bowie knife is any hunting knife that has a guard. It does not have to have a big flashy full blown cross guard. Just one big enough to keep your fingers from getting cut if your hand slips.

.

Looking at the Searles and early Schively knives, thought to be commissioned by Rezin Bowie and the Forrest knife, shows a selfguard.
No way the fingers slip out on the edge with a Kitchen knife/ Mediterranean Bowie style!

It's another thing with the Tah-Chee style, but anyone used to knives without a fingerguard, has no trouble with this.

When I drive the tip into wood, I hold the knife in the left hand and pound the pommel with the palm of the right hand.
Easy and safe!
No way to slip out on the blade.

Regards
Mikael

 

[Charlie_K]

Any discussion of what is and isn't a bowie knife, without including at least one entry of the BK9, is sacrilege.

 

[Ebbtide]

Coffin handle Tah-Chee style begs to be held in a saber grip with the hand way back on the handle.
Not in the middle.
Grasp the knob that is there and it fits your hand amazingly well.
Here's another Jantz blade, sheath and box I did for a friend.



Let's not forget Flayderman's fantastic book




(Last 2 knives by Bruce Evans)

 

[Mikael W]

Coffin handle Tah-Chee style begs to be held in a saber grip with the hand way back on the handle.
Not in the middle.
Grasp the knob that is there and it fits your hand amazingly well.

Agreed, this grip works for various tasks.
Here is the Rouge chopping Pearwood.

The natural position for the hand is as You say, on the knob.

Regards
Mikael

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I think it's interesting that the knife many people think of when they hear the title "Bowie knife" being a big, clip pointed, guarded knife, almost certainly wasn't the original knife carried by Bowie, and may simply be the result of good marketing.

That said, I would like a big clip pointed fixed blade, with a guard for the hand.

 

[Mikael W]

I think it's interesting that the knife many people think of when they hear the title "Bowie knife" being a big, clip pointed, guarded knife, almost certainly wasn't the original knife carried by Bowie, and may simply be the result of good marketing.

That said, I would like a big clip pointed fixed blade, with a guard for the hand.

Yes, this is probably the favorite model for most bowiefans, including me too.
Knives like this was around already in the end of the 18th century.
One of these knives is shown in Norm Flayderman's book, marked "Peterson".
Flayderman dates them between 1790 to1820.


Regards
Mikael

 

[mqqn]

I guess the answer is, for the most part, it is a Bowie if someone says it is a Bowie.

I equate a Bowie knife with a large, pointy knife with a beefy handle.

I commissioned John Kiedaisch (JK Knives) to make my rendition of the Bowie, what I call the XD Modern Bowie -

This is a rugged knife made for use, whatever you might need a knife to do I figure this one will do it.

best

mqqn

 

[Big Mike]

Several Bowie Knives, guard-less, single quillian, abbreviated double quillian.

Another guard-less Bowie.

I find that a guard-less Bowie make a superior tool in the camp kitchen.




Big Mike

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

"It must be long enough to use as a sword, sharp enough to use as a razor, wide enough to use as a paddle, and heavy enough to use as a hatchet."

As long as it meets those criteria I guess it can be classed as a Bowie.

To be honest the 12 inch length is probably too big for me. 8 inches is probably a good figure, perhaps 6 inches. Who makes a good quality 8 inch clip pointed, quillianed, knife?

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Pulling info from a variety of sources, Rezin Bowie's original knife was made in 1826 (prior to the Sandbar Fight in 1827 in which Jim Bowie started the fame of the Bowie knife).

In a letter written to the Planter's Advocate, dated 24 August 1838, Rezin stated ::

"The improvements in its fabrication and state of perfection it has acquired from experienced cutlers, was not brought about through my agency."


The various changes (clip blade, quillions, etc) to "the Bowie Knife" that even Rezin had incorporated into later "presentation knife" versions, along with statements in various letters he wrote show that Rezin approved of the metamorphosis of "his" knife.

 

[Mikael W]

Who makes a good quality 8 inch clip pointed, quillianed, knife?

Fällkniven NL2 Odin.
The maker is Hattori in Seki City, one of the top production company's availible.

For an off the shelf production knife, the Odin is the best I have tried!
Steel, heat-treatment and geometry are spot on.
Weight is around 14oz or 380 gram.
This together with the 8" bladelenght gives it enough power to chop well in a compact size.

The 6,5 mm (over 1/4") spine and the laminated stainless VG-10 gives it both strenght and edgeholding.
I have used mine hard since 2007, but the edge has only needed maintenance by honing.
I have chopped with it for hours and it just keeps on working.
Fine work in wood is also possible, so it's easy to recommend this knife!

Regards
Mikael

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Thank you.

 

[cbach8tw]

My belief is the original bowie is much like the Forest knife, and it evolved into many different forms.