Is it a dagger if it's single edged?

lieferung

lieferung

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I hope this isn't a dumb question. My state has carry of daggers explicitly restricted (along with dirks, but I thought they were the same thing), but I have considered dulling the edge of one side and attempting to carry it. Do you think knife laws consider a dagger to be fundamentally double edged, or would cops say that something marketed as a dagger is always a dagger double edge or not?
 
Hey there,

Would you be willing to name the state in which you currently reside in so that you may be given a little bit better assistance?
There can be some broad categories or very specific terms that can cover such assumptions as to what your area defines a dagger is.. or what they categorize it as.
They can be defined as for being any weapon designed for a primary use of stabbing, such as a dirk, but are usually defined as being double edged blades.
Which can fall under unlawful carry of a restricted knife (or dangerous weapon) in some places.

As I live in Texas, where daggers are (location restricted) as of 2020 but legal to carry, I might not have the best input on your personal situation, let alone that anything I say should be taken as legal advice, but I can possibly help point you in the right direction by providing you with any interesting cases, definitions, penal codes or laws by referencing them if I were provided with a specific state, that you can then further look into or receive assistance for by contacting a local lawyer or attorney.

In reference to the original question asked, being if you modify the dagger to conform with local regulations.. I couldn't answer that specifically.
As some state laws refer to double edged instruments and daggers as separate categories. Even with the modification, it could potentially still be unlawful.

It would be best to refer to local resources that can look into that specific matter very diligently for you.

Thanks!
- Bryan
 
Yes, Illinois. I believe the legal restrictions name dirks and daggers, as well as double edged blades. Which brings me to this question of whether I could carry a blade marketed as a dagger if I dulled one of the edges.
 
Ask the guy in Cali who went to jail because he had an open Swiss Army knife in his pocket and the prosecutor successfully convicted him of carrying a dirk.

He got off on appeal eventually but it seems like a lot of hassle.

The laws are worded in a grey manner so if someone in law enforcement decides you're gonna have a bad time they can give you a bad day.

Grinding half an edge off something seems like a lot of work, plus a way to ruin the value and appearance of a knife; and pointless given how many single edge knives you can find.
 
Danke42 said:
Grinding half an edge off something seems like a lot of work, plus a way to ruin the value and appearance of a knife; and pointless given how many single edge knives you can find.
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Yeah but how else can I legally carry an AG Russell Sting without moving out of state? :rolleyes:

That was an interesting case (here's a rundown I found for those interested), but the guy did have priors and was uncooperative. From what I've been able to gather regarding blade size, cops won't hassle a law abiding citizen (for the most part). I've never inquired about blade type though so that's why I'm here.
 
Disclaimer- I don't live in Illinois, never have, I am not a lawyer, I do not claim to be an expert on, nor do I claim to be particularly knowledgeable about Illinois knife laws.

But just for the sake of discussion, and because I'm bored, I did some quick research-

Here is a link to Illinois knife laws on the official Illinois government website-(paragraph 2 relates to "daggers")(Disclaimer- I do not know if any changes have been made to this statute since it became effective in 2017)- https://ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=100-0082

And here is a link to a synopsis of Illinois knife law from the American Knife and Tool Institute (Disclaimer- I do not vouch for the accuracy of any information on this site)-
https://akti.org/state-knife-laws/illinois/

Two things that stand out to me-

1. I can't find any legal definition in Illinois law for "dagger". That doesn't mean that one doesn't exist, but I sure looked, and I couldn't find one.

2. I looks like it is legal to carry a "dagger" as long as you do NOT do so "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another".

My layman's interpretation is that it's legal in Illinois to carry a "dagger" as long as you don't have the intent to use it UNLAWFULLY against other people.

But hey, I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to make legal judgements based on my interpretations :).

My advice, when in doubt, find and consult a local attorney who is very knowledgeable on the subject of local weapons laws. As one who carries a knife, it never hurts to know a good criminal defense attorney should a misunderstanding arise.


.
 
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lieferung said:
Yeah but how else can I legally carry an AG Russell Sting without moving out of state? :rolleyes:

That was an interesting case (here's a rundown I found for those interested), but the guy did have priors and was uncooperative. From what I've been able to gather regarding blade size, cops won't hassle a law abiding citizen (for the most part). I've never inquired about blade type though so that's why I'm here.
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Well get the wrong guy on a bad day and it'll be a hassle.

There isn't much like that one. Maybe a Drop Point Hunter would be close or maybe the Chute Knife.

Stuff like this is why I don't try and find bali's or switchblades. Just because there is no reasonable excuse if an issue comes up.
 
Thanks kilgar, i don't know how trustworthy that site is but I didn't know that even daggers could be carried. I don't plan on carrying for self defense so I don't need two edges, the symmetry of daggers (and the overall design of the Sting in particular) appeals greatly to me that's all. Maybe I'll need to resort to a custom maker.
 
Don't forget local county and municipal rules, which can be more restrictive than state law. Also whether it is concealed or not.
If it's a gray area of law it comes down to the cop you are dealing with, and why.
 
Bryan Lasalle said:
Hey there,

Would you be willing to name the state in which you currently reside in so that you may be given a little bit better assistance?
There can be some broad categories or very specific terms that can cover such assumptions as to what your area defines a dagger is.. or what they categorize it as.
They can be defined as for being any weapon designed for a primary use of stabbing, such as a dirk, but are usually defined as being double edged blades.
Which can fall under unlawful carry of a restricted knife (or dangerous weapon) in some places.

As I live in Texas, where daggers are (location restricted) as of 2020 but legal to carry, I might not have the best input on your personal situation, let alone that anything I say should be taken as legal advice, but I can possibly help point you in the right direction by providing you with any interesting cases, definitions, penal codes or laws by referencing them if I were provided with a specific state, that you can then further look into or receive assistance for by contacting a local lawyer or attorney.

In reference to the original question asked, being if you modify the dagger to conform with local regulations.. I couldn't answer that specifically.
As some state laws refer to double edged instruments and daggers as separate categories. Even with the modification, it could potentially still be unlawful.

It would be best to refer to local resources that can look into that specific matter very diligently for you.

Thanks!
- Bryan
Click to expand...

Just a note - Daggers are NOT location restricted. The "location restricted" laws apply ONLY TO BLADE LENGTH, with no reference anywhere as to blade shape, style, number of sharp edges, etc..

Location restrictions prohibit the carry of knives with blades longer than 5-1/2 inches in the same locations where it is illegal to carry a concealed handgun.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
Just a note - Daggers are NOT location restricted. The "location restricted" laws apply ONLY TO BLADE LENGTH, with no reference anywhere as to blade shape, style, number of sharp edges, etc..

Location restrictions prohibit the carry of knives with blades longer than 5-1/2 inches in the same locations where it is illegal to carry a concealed handgun.
Click to expand...

Error on my part about location restriction, apologies. I should probably stop getting onto the forums so late into the nights if I plan on responding to people..
I mixed up my wording by reading about other states "dangerous weapons" codes and automatically came to the assumption of what my experiences are of typical sized daggers (over 6 inches). I assumed that other locations would also have different laws regarding what they deem to be location restricted (if they have any) or laws regarding prohibited areas in which certain weapons are not allowed to be carried rather than in regards to blade length as defined in Sec. 46.01/46.02 (Texas) in accordance to Texas law, since they are not in Texas. I could not find anything in specifics referring to blade length for Illinois in reference to Sec. 24-1.

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful use of weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same

unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character;

Which is why I stated that there might be different sets of restriction laws that will specifically govern over their rights to carry in that specific state or city.
It would not be fun to be in court trying to prove your intent as to why you were carrying, as they can speculate over absolutely everything in referral of why you would even need to carry it to begin with.

Thanks!
- Bryan
 
No problem, Bryan. Late night posting can grab anyone.

Texas's laws used to be really weird. The ban read "daggers, dirks, pongiards and bowie knives", with no definition any where. So essentially the law previously banned the carry of "daggers, short daggers, French daggers and bowie knives" with no explanation as to what they were. Court cases decided what a dagger was (both edges sharpened, even as little as 1/2 inch on the spine). As one judge was quoted (paraphrased here) "I don't know what the defintion of a Bowie knife is but I know one when I see one."

To my knowledge,Texas is the only place that has the term "location restricted" in its laws, re: knives. I know there is reference to the term in website access, computer access, employee tracking, employee access, business types, etc.
 
“Dagger” is one of those terms that laws rarely provide a clear definition for.

In Pennsylvania, a lot of people think we aren’t allowed to carry daggers mainly due to confusion with the wording in our laws. It actually only applies to the auto knife ban, which reads something like “any dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed automatically by switch, push button, spring mechanism or otherwise.” So daggers themselves aren’t illegal to carry per se, but there’s always a possibility they could fall under the broad catch-all of “any implement for the infliction of bodily harm or injury with no lawful purpose” (once again, I’m paraphrasing) if you carried them with the intent of using them to hurt someone.

New Jersey lists “dagger, dirk, stiletto” in their law on “Prohibited Weapons and Devices” which includes autos and gravity knives. While it defines an auto and gravity knife, it provides no definition for daggers, dirks, and stilettos, so you’re at the mercy of a cop, prosecutor, or judge who may or may not decide that a blade you were carrying meets their profile for one of those terms.

I’ve never studied Illinois’s laws as much, so I couldn’t tell you.
 
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