Is Stabilized Spalted Maple Really Stable?

redsquid2

redsquid2

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I may have worked with spalted maple several years ago, but I never had a knife that was handled with it.

I look at it, and I think it would easily break where the dark lines are, even if it is stabilized. So I am wondering if I can draw upon the experience of other knifemakers here.
 
Spalted maple that is stabilized by K&G like the stock you might find on my site or mark's is stable and durable.

Ive sold ~200 blocks of stabilized apalted maple and never had a failure as far as i know.
 
I agree with Ben and Stacy if done professionally I wouldn't be concerned. I was gifted a set of spalted maple scales a few years ago that I know was "stabilized" at home with cactus juice. I snapped it in half with little effort revealing the punky wood inside.
 
The spalting lines shouldn't be an issue. However If you find a large punky void in the block, it should probably get filled with epoxy.
I was just recently splitting a block and found an area right in the middle that I wasn't comfortable with, but fortunately I was able to work around it.
 
Ill offer a different perspective. I've used k&g stabilized spalted maple about a dozen times over a 2 year period a few years back. I had at least 10 of those come back for replacement scales. Most of them cracked outright. A few either expanded or shrunk....quite badly. The wood was from multiple sources and time frames.

End grain cuts of anything are not what I would call stable or durable. Its the absolute weakest form of a wood scale and even stabilized, will snap like a twig if flexed.

Imagine cutting 3/8" off the end of a 2 x 6.....that's what your scale would be like. Add spalting (translated 'rotting')on top of that and you be the judge.

Spalted maple?.....for me, I won't touch the stuff.
 
J. Doyle said:
Ill offer a different perspective. I've used k&g stabilized spalted maple about a dozen times over a 2 year period a few years back. I had at least 10 of those come back for replacement scales. Most of them cracked outright. A few either expanded or shrunk....quite badly. The wood was from multiple sources and time frames.

End grain cuts of anything are not what I would call stable or durable. Its the absolute weakest form of a wood scale and even stabilized, will snap like a twig if flexed.

Imagine cutting 3/8" off the end of a 2 x 6.....that's what your scale would be like. Add spalting (translated 'rotting')on top of that and you be the judge.

Spalted maple?.....for me, I won't touch the stuff.
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Were the ones you had crack end grain or burl? I have only sold stabilized spalted maple burl and jatoba, thats never been an issue for me.
 
My experience: almost every knife I do is with stabilized spalted maple from big leaf maples off my property. I have approximately 200 blocks, half of which have been stabilized so far by K&G. Almost all of them are solid and should make fine handles. However, I wouldn't count out Mr Doyle's experience. I have had a stabilized block break apart along a spalting line when I was cutting it into scales but I couldn't see any difference in that block compared to others from the same batch.

I'd say the odds are pretty good that it's fine. But remember, we're talking about an organic material, so there are probably variables that we aren't smart enough to know about and failure could result.

Definitely avoid the end grain as stated above, although I have made a couple of kitchen knives with end grain scales on a full tang knife and no problems so far after 2 years, but I'm sure the epoxy holding it to the tang is also helping keep the scale from splitting. I wouldn't feel comfortable using these on a camp knife or any other knife that will see rough use.

My suggestion would be to get your spalted pieces from a reputable dealer so that if it fails, you will be able to get a replacement.
~billyO
 
weo said:
My experience: almost every knife I do is with stabilized spalted maple from big leaf maples off my property. I have approximately 200 blocks, half of which have been stabilized so far by K&G. Almost all of them are solid and should make fine handles. However, I wouldn't count out Mr Doyle's experience. I have had a stabilized block break apart along a spalting line when I was cutting it into scales but I couldn't see any difference in that block compared to others from the same batch.

I'd say the odds are pretty good that it's fine. But remember, we're talking about an organic material, so there are probably variables that we aren't smart enough to know about and failure could result.

Definitely avoid the end grain as stated above, although I have made a couple of kitchen knives with end grain scales on a full tang knife and no problems so far after 2 years, but I'm sure the epoxy holding it to the tang is also helping keep the scale from splitting. I wouldn't feel comfortable using these on a camp knife or any other knife that will see rough use.

My suggestion would be to get your spalted pieces from a reputable dealer so that if it fails, you will be able to get a replacement.
~billyO
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I should get around to writing my article on spalting.
 
i agree with everyone here spalted wood can be just fine after proper treatment and end grain as cool as some of it can look is the least strong in use
 
There is a big difference between what is acceptable with spalted wood and what is just rotten wood.
I have thrown away lots of stabilized spalted wood over the years. Not the fault of the stabilizers.

If the wood is punky at all it goes into the burn pile because it will not have the structural integrity that is needed.
A quick test I use with spalted wood before stabilizing is after cutting on the bandsaw I pick at the wood with my fingernail. If small crumbles come loose then the wood is rotten and not strong enough.
If you catch the wood in time before the spalting has gone too far it can still be pretty strong and a good candidate for stabilizing.
Ideal spalted wood will show different colors from the different types of fungus but will not have started to rot and become porous.
I will never try to stabilize end grain spalted wood. Even if it holds together as one piece through the stabilizing process it is still more likely to break than wood cut following the grain like normal lumber.
My opinion is based on several years of attempting to make it work.

The best spalted wood for stabilizing will show even sized pores without porous or crumbly areas.
The black lines that you see in some spalted wood is a barrier that the fungus puts up like a fence to keep the other fungus colonies out of their territory.
Good spalted wood can show a variety of different color staining fungus. I have seen gold, orange, red, purple, blue, green and various shades of brown.

In summary, you have to catch the wood at the right time to get good colors and still maintain acceptable strength in the wood. In just a matter of weeks the wood can go from good to rotten. You can usually halt the decomposing process if the wood gets kiln dried and kills the fungus that is growing in the wood. Heat and dryness are what stops the fungus from growing.
 
Mark summed it up nicely. Spalted wood should NEVER be end grain. My opinion is no wood should be end grain. If the spalted wood is done properly and not rotten before stabilizing it will be just fine. As Mr Doyle say, his spalted wood was end grain, and as expected for spalted end grain, didn't hold up. Well, reading Mr Doyle's post again, I'm not sure he's saying the spalted wood that failed was end grain or not.
J. Doyle said:
End grain cuts of anything are not what I would call stable or durable. Its the absolute weakest form of a wood scale and even stabilized, will snap like a twig if flexed.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part. I believe all the pieces I was referring to were, indeed, end grain. Which at the time was all the rage because it looked cool. And I was young and didn't know any better.

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that was what the OP was referring to because most of the spalted maple I see is end grain.

As to spalted stuff that is NOT end grain, I agree completely with Mark's comments and protocol.
 
J. Doyle said:
Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part. I believe all the pieces I was referring to were, indeed, end grain. Which at the time was all the rage because it looked cool. And I was young and didn't know any better.
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You are still young Mr. D. Unlike old farts such as myself. It has been fun watching your knife making skills and style develop over the years.

Karl B. Andersen said:
I've probably done 20+ knives like this in block form and all were about as hard as a brick!
I can't speak for anything in scale form.
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Looking at Karl's knife it appears that the wood was stabilized before it had developed any punky areas. Using the wood as a solid piece instead of scales made the handle about 4 times stronger than scales would have been. To change my comments a bit I would say that when using spalted woods you should choose your pieces with care after close examination.
 
In a follow-up to my previous post, today I was doing a Wa handle and used another piece that looked fine and solid, but when i ground the handle to it's final size, there were a couple of voids that were too big to fill with super glue and so had to start over.
 
weo said:
In a follow-up to my previous post, today I was doing a Wa handle and used another piece that looked fine and solid, but when i ground the handle to it's final size, there were a couple of voids that were too big to fill with super glue and so had to start over.
Click to expand...
This always makes me nervous. Spalting is beautiful, but it can be a trap.
 
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