Is Steel Will using fake M390 and an unknown manufacturer?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by `br4dz-, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. `br4dz-

    `br4dz- Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2016

    Anyone want to touch this topic? I've heard rumors about multiple companies that mostly turned out false, or were true and they immediately investigated and looked into the matter and eventually fixed it, but this one seems different for a couple of reasons.

    A) That's EXTREMELY junk compared to M390's typical performance, so I highly doubt it's a bad heat treat on the blade, or accidental steel mix up. It seems more like budget steel being used in it's place, on purpose. Reminds me of the CRKT Hootenanny S30V issue, but this is more extreme.

    B) Steel Will's response to who makes their knives was abysmal at best. I understand he didn't outright say he had an issue with the knife and would like to speak to customer service about it, but why is their manufacturer a secret? It just screams fishy to me, as if maybe it's not an Italian maker that's making these knives.

    Right now this is all speculation and I don't want to ruin Steel Will's reputation, but this needs to be figured out so there's no question as to what is going on. There are questions that must be answered.
  2. Mo2


    Apr 8, 2016
    someone else will have to test one to verify. as he said it was just one knife.

    I don't usually buy Italian because its more about image than it is performance.

    edit... steel will replied to the video...
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  3. `br4dz-

    `br4dz- Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    I'm hoping he gets hold of steel will to find out more information, as well as testing a second knife (not sent by steel will) to test if he just got a dud or it's a major issue going on
  4. kreole

    kreole Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 23, 2009
    A lot of companies don't want others to know what manufacturers/factories they use. That's really not suspicious in itself.
    chiral.grolim and chambelona59 like this.
  5. AF

    AF Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    Good vid. He says how it falls way short of other M390 he's tested. I think he should give a few other points of comparison.
    Seems like something is off.
    There's nothing suspicious about not providing the actual manufacturer.
    The thread title is unfair. Why couldn't it be a bad heat treat? You're jumping to conclusions.
  6. 19-3ben

    19-3ben Basic Member Basic Member

    Jul 27, 2015
    LOL, they must be following the QTRMSTR business model.:D
    RobT2, Yo Mama and Mo2 like this.
  7. jceckrosh


    Mar 2, 2016
    So right now we are talking about one knife?
    maximus83 likes this.
  8. `br4dz-

    `br4dz- Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    I'm not jumping to conclusions, I specifically documented out my points as well as giving explanations. Something just seems off, including pricing. Their past folders with N690co have been more expensive than their m390 runs. Based on my other points, I feel like maybe they tried passing off junk steel to their customers, or they are getting shafted by their manufacturer and don't even know it. Bad heat treats don't generally make a knife hold it's edge 1/5th as well as a good heat treat, unless someone was drunk and high during that heat treating session. Had it been 1/2 the performance, I could understand it potentially being a bad heat treat.
    anthonycastorena2014 likes this.
  9. Sergeua


    May 1, 2016
    There's gotta be more than one knife like this out there. What are the odds that only one bad knife made its way to this YouTuber in Australia. Should test their d2 also.
  10. TheEdge01


    Apr 3, 2015
    I’ve made enough mistakes in my life to know we shouldn’t be too hard on people for their mistakes. It could very well be a matter of unintentional human error.
  11. Sergeua


    May 1, 2016
    there has to be proper practice in place to take out human error as much as possible
  12. AF

    AF Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    Ok, to me that's jumping to conclusions.
    I think it's safe to say that his knife has issues and it's fairly likely that at a minimum a batch of these is not up to snuff.
    Jonathan.nb, tyyreaun and 19-3ben like this.
  13. nick21


    Feb 22, 2014
    I think it's ridiculous to jump to the conclusion of fraudulence. Heat treat can make or break a steel. Literally, in some cases.
  14. `br4dz-

    `br4dz- Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    Even if it's just a batch of bad knives and nothing else, attention needs brought to the subject matter and steel will needs to own up to it. This thread was created to draw attention to a potentially widespread issue, not to grab pitchforks and mob steel will. I added an "is" in front of the thread title to signify that it's more of a question than a declaration.
    P2P, Mo2 and 19-3ben like this.
  15. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    No problems with my M390 in an Italian made Steel Will. I believe Viper makes their higher end knives.
  16. Beansandcarrots

    Beansandcarrots KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 15, 2014
    Another knife needs to be tested, for sure. But please do recall the S35VN Pete tested from ZT which performed horrendously; no accusations of steel fraud were thrown then. It is more likely than not that the blade underwent a poor heat treat, which is far from excusable on a $200 blade, but Steel Will had to have known the Modus would fly off the shelves.

    It seems likely to me that the volume of production they placed on their Italian infrastructure may simply have been a little overwhelming. Perhaps the furnace was a little too full and some blades didn’t get a good and proper soak.
    Mr.SATism likes this.
  17. maximus83

    maximus83 Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Here's the bottom line: when you have a sample of one--you cannot draw any conclusions. Like, at all.
  18. TheEdge01


    Apr 3, 2015
    I agree, but anything built, maintained, and operated by humans is subject to error. If it isn’t a consistent or widespread issue, Steel will should take care of the customers affected by this, and learn from it.
  19. `br4dz-

    `br4dz- Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    That's the problem with this test. His bad HT'd ZT's were performing about 65-70% of the way other S35VN tested for him, where as the M390 on the modus tested at 20% of where other M390 tested, a much larger discrepancy, which is why others and myself included are very curious if it's actually a different steel and not just a poor heat treat. Bad heat treats happen.
    ScooterG, tyyreaun and P2P like this.
  20. M. Johnwell

    M. Johnwell

    Jan 8, 2015
    I have the exact same knife and it Rockwell tested pretty low. I checked it again yesterday and it came in at 58 Rockwell three times. If it is M390, they left a lot in the oven.
    Beansandcarrots, AF and Mo2 like this.

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