Is the .22LR the most versatile caliber for urban/wilderness survival.

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ieraseu

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As the title states, is a .22LR the most versatile caliber for urban/wilderness survival?

22LR ammo is relatively inexpensive, lightweight, and can be purchased in extreme quantities without a problem. The round can also be used in both rifles or handguns, adding to it's versatility.

22LR is capable of taking all small game, and even deer with the right shot placement. Of course it's not legal to take deer with a .22LR, but in a desperate situation where you are just trying to keep alive and not starving to death, it's unlikely that legality will be a major concern in your mind. After all, humans are about the same size or slightly larger then the average deer, and they can certainly be killed with a 22LR.

What about against people that may be desperate or hungry enough to want to loot your supplies or other valuables? Well, you are probably thinking a .22LR is not what you want for this, and in general I would agree, but then I read this blog about someone living in Argentina and his experiences living in a country basically going through 'a significant depression'. He has this to say about the .22LR:

"Then there’s something I’ve seen done a lot, specially in farms and such, and is the need to fire a few warning shots to send trespassers, thieves and poachers away. This can happen almost on daily basis and I see the wisdom there in using a cheap round like 22LR, and that’s what most farmers and ranchers use most of here. 3 or 4 warning shots a day means over 1000 rounds a year. Better to make that 22LR. The semi auto 22lR carbine is also accurate for long range shooting in case they fire back. Anyone wounded at a considerable distance will most likely just leave."

In his blog here, he recommends that you carry and have access to other higher caliber firearms, but makes note that you will probably use your .22LR more then anything else.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Firearms


So do you agree or disagree with the .22LR being the most versatile round for urban/wilderness survival?
 
The .22lr is certainly a caliber that everyone who shoots should own. Anything that you can get a thousand rounds for under $30 is good to have around. But, I would also put the 12 ga. shotgun up as an extremely versital gun.
 
I think it is, pistol or rifle you can do a lot with it, and shoot it all day long also is a plus!!!
 
No doubt about it, the 22 RF has been number one for all round survival for more than a 100 years. I don't think anything else is even in the ball park.
 
In a survival situation, I think that you'd be using a .22lr more than any other caliber.

Outside of war, the .22lr has killed more people than any other caliber of pistol or rifle.

22LR ammo is relatively inexpensive, lightweight, and can be purchased in extreme quantities without a problem.
Click to expand...

Around here and online, I am having problems finding .22lr by the brick.
 
Hey Guys..

I Agree completely...

A .22 in a survival situation is a must have...

My main .22 right now is a slightly done up Ruger 10/22, although it could do with a trigger job, although even a single shot or bolt .22 is a gun you can't go wrong with..

There are some "chipmunk" models for youth, that Almost could fit in a backpack...

A Savage O/U 22/410 are also Awesome guns, which just expand your horizons..

I'm shooting a Savage O/U .223/20 Gauge, and although a much heavier gun, expands the possibilities even more..
The only thing I don't like about it is that it isn't left hand friendly...Yet !

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
If you have time to aim, the .22 can be a nasty little gun with today's ammo. I have torn apart rabbits and smaller game with different brands of the hollow pointed "almost mag" stuff. I like the fact that you can carry a lot of ammo in a tiny little box. There's a lot of horsepower there in a 50 rd. box.

It would not be my first choice for "social work" as the ninjas like to coyly say, but it is great while out camping, hunting (think backup/plinking time) or for small game.

I totally agree with the idea that the sounds of a gunshot will frighten most people off, and for any game shooting you might need to do in a survival scenario, I doubt if deer, elk, moose, etc., would be you only choice. If they are around, there is other smaller game present.

That being said, my buddy the game warden (here in S. Texas) told me that the #1 poachers gun is the .22 LR. Quiet, accurate, good stopping power out to about 50 yds (again, think placement) and ammunition readily available.
He uses a .22 LR to shoot diseased or wounded animals as part of his job.

That being said, the price of the ammo is a great boon as well. With cheap ammo, you can afford to practice, or stay in practice. You can familiarize yourself with your firearm like you can in no other way when you practice a lot. You build confidence in yourself and your ability.

Having several big bore pistols, I will readily admit they don't mean anything if you can't hit something with them. Since I can't afford to go shoot 150 rds of .45 or .357 anymore on a regular basis to keep my skills up, it is nice to have solid, affordable gun to practice with.

Robert
 
if you don't have time to aim, you are going to miss. :p


I love me some .22. If I had to, I could put a pill in a deer's eye at 50 yards.

Be the best choice for dealing with zombie hordes too. :D

That said, I would want something with stopping power along for the ride.
 
ieraseu said:
As the title states, is a .22LR the most versatile caliber for urban/wilderness survival?
Click to expand...
In a wilderness setting, for all the reasons you and others have posted, you can make a good case for the .22LR being a very good choice. It has a lot going for it and its probably the optimal choice for many of the uses a wilderness survival arm is likely to be put to.

However, for an urban setting I don't think it stacks up so well. In an urban setting, I see SD as being a much more significant part of "survival" than it would be in the wilds, and despite the often repeated claim that .22 have killed more people than any other caliber, it is vastly inferior to any of the modern 9mm-.45APC pistol cartiges, .223-.380 rifle cartiges or 12 gauge shotgun shells for consistently and reliably stopping two legged threats. Certainly a .22 is better than nothing, but it would not be my first choice in an urban setting.
 
Normark said:
Hey Guys..

I Agree completely...

A .22 in a survival situation is a must have...

My main .22 right now is a slightly done up Ruger 10/22, although it could do with a trigger job, although even a single shot or bolt .22 is a gun you can't go wrong with..

There are some "chipmunk" models for youth, that Almost could fit in a backpack...

A Savage O/U 22/410 are also Awesome guns, which just expand your horizons..

I'm shooting a Savage O/U .223/20 Gauge, and although a much heavier gun, expands the possibilities even more..
The only thing I don't like about it is that it isn't left hand friendly...Yet !

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
Click to expand...

I am also partial to my savage 22/20 over and under in a camper model no choke. I also have a 223 over 20
 
It certaily has its advantages, light weight, low cost, low noise, easy to modify (silencers), cost effective to practice with, low penetration (Walls), ok range, very little recoil, the rounds do not take up much space, and a head shot or multiple chest shot will take down a lot, although there are reports of shots bouncing off of skulls before.

Of course a 12ga shot gun is also damn useful, although the rounds tend to be a bit more costly, and not as accurate at long range, you can fire different rounds.

Either would be nice, maybe a .22 pistol and a 12ga rifle.
 
The .22 LR is "cost-effectively" the most versatile round, and is much more powerful and gets longer range in a bolt action than in an auto loader...followed by the .22WMR for more range. However if it weren't for the fact that it is a "wildcat" round and more expensive and hard to find I'd much rather have the center fire .22 Hornet. I think center fires are more stable for long term travel and bumping around, I think you get less miss-fires from center fire ammo that has been bumping around in a glove box or tool box than with rim fires, and... they can be reloaded. The .22 Hornet is an awesome round that I have killed everything with...deer, rabbits, fox squirrels, groundhog, turkey, grouse....but have done the same things with the .22WMR.
 
mdauben said:
However, for an urban setting I don't think it stacks up so well. In an urban setting, I see SD as being a much more significant part of "survival" than it would be in the wilds, and despite the often repeated claim that .22 have killed more people than any other caliber, it is vastly inferior to any of the modern 9mm-.45APC pistol cartiges, .223-.380 rifle cartiges or 12 gauge shotgun shells for consistently and reliably stopping two legged threats. Certainly a .22 is better than nothing, but it would not be my first choice in an urban setting.
Click to expand...


Well clearly a 22LR is not the best for self defense, for that you would want a larger centerfire handgun. However, in a 'non-combat related' emergency situation such as a severe depression, or a loss of infrastructure as may be the case after a nuclear blast, I do not think the greatest threat to your life would be people trying to rob or kill you, though certainly there would be some of that.

The greatest threat would still be starvation and lack of water. Just think what would happen if there was no more food in the supermarkets and no more access to water and no trucks coming by to resupply the gas stations with gasoline. Think about what would happen after just 1 month of that, then just 2 months.

Huge quantities of people would very quickly become hungry and desperate. Everyday regular people will come by begging for money or food........not bad criminal types (although certainly there will be some), but people whom were caught unprepared and now are starving and desperate.

So even in this urban setting, I think the biggest thing we would have to worry about is still survival rather then self defense. We would need access to food and water, and a 22LR is probably the most lightweight and economical way to carry around a tool that has the ability to gather game such as pigeons, squirrels, and even coyotes or other 'dog sized game'. A 22LR handgun or small rifle can fit in a backpack or panniers on a bicycle with 1000 rounds of ammo, and still be somewhat lightweight.


So yes, I would sure want that .45ACP or 9MM around, but I still think the .22LR would get more use.
 
As long as defense was not an issue, a .22 beats a shotgun or pistol FOR MID-LONG TERM WILDERNESS survival.

Personally, I just bought a Crosman .22 Nitro airgun, and I have to say, It can take any small game a .22LR can out to 50 yards and better and you can carry 1000 rounds in your pocket and it is WAYYYY quieter which could be very important.

BUT, for short term where a box of 25 various 12 Gauge rounds is all I need, there is nothing like the comfort of my 870 Remmy by my side. Throw in an urban setting and I will add my 1911 and 50 rounds plus 3 full mags thank you very much.

I will say this, most people are ill equipped to use a handgun or shotgun in a defensive situation. We have trained extensively for hunting game, but when YOU are the game, the rules and tactics change. I'm getting some training next month and highly recommend everyone else that carries defensively does the same.
 
ieraseu said:
Is the .22LR the most versatile caliber for urban/wilderness survival.
Click to expand...

No, it's not.

In fact, it's not a very versatile round at all.
The 12 gauge shell with all the various shot, slug, 2 3/4", 3", 3 1/2" shells, is by far the most versatile, chased by the 20 gauge.

The only things the .22LR have going for it are that it's quiet, it's cheap, it's lightweight, and it has no recoil to speak of.

It's bested in accuracy by many cartridges.
It's bested in bullet construction by most cartridges.
It's bested in power by almost everything.

The reason more people are killed by it than any other? Well, misrepresentation of the numbers. That includes executions (victims NOT fighting, plus it's next to impossible to match .22 LR to the gun forensically), suicides (another non fighting target, often used because if a family only owns one gun it's more likely to be a .22LR than anything else). Take those out of the picture and "the number of people killed" by it drops to a marginal number. So, yes, it does kill people, but no, it's not a good choice, and does not do it well.

The reason it's the #1 poacher's gun? It's cheap. The guns and ammo are cheap. The round is not good for poaching, it's that poachers make it work for them. Just like the #1 poaching cartridge in Africa is the 7.62x39. That's the #1 for even stuff like Cape Buffalo. Yeah it works, but it isn't good at it. It's used because over there it is the cheapest and easiest to acquire.

Now, does any of the above mean it's not worth having?
Absolutely not.

Is it good for being lost in the woods and feeding for a long time yourself with it? No, not really. In such a situation, small game isn't worth a bullet. Even with a .22LR, you're not going to have enough on you to waste them shooting squirrels when you don't know how long you're going to be out. Traps and snares for land and water game are far more productive in such a case.

"OK Cpl, so when the hell IS it a good choice?"

Well, it's good for around the home. You really can have an enormous supply of it carried comfortably in your house. It IS good to forage with when you know you'll be back to your supply of ammo in a fixed amount of time.
It's good if you are going to sojourn int he woods for a known amount of time. You can bring enough with a margin for error.

It's good to teach/maintain shooting skills, especially if the gun you are using has the same sight picture as your larger guns.

It's great fun to have with mom and the kids. Everyone can comfortable shoot it, and it won't break the bank to blow 1K rounds in a day.

So, can it be pressed into working in a lot of situations? Sure, but so can a lot of others.
Is it versatile by design or capability? No.
 
I was big into .22 shooting for a while. A good gun and some good ammo is unbelieveably accurate out to 50 yards. Literally pinpoint accuracy. As in you can hit the head of a pin.

However, every caliber has its uses. If I got thrown into a forest with no idea how long I'd be out there and what kinds of animals I'd find, and I could only choose one gun, I'd probably want to go for a bigger caliber to give me an extra sense of security and the ability to take down larger game at greater distances. I still wouldn't want anything massive that would obliterate small game. Maybe .223 would be a good choice, but I've never shot a squirrel with a .223 round. Not sure what would happen to it. Maybe a shotgun with a variety of shots and slugs, but that'll start to get pretty heavy.
 
doesnt H&R or rossi make a .22lr/.410 shotty combo?
thats what i would suggest.
i would not personally carry one but then again in the army, were used to packing everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink.
i would have an AR or AK at the low ready, rem 870 12g attached to my pack, and a H&K USP .45 in a drop leg.

.22lr is for a casual walk in the woods, no more than 2-3 miles from camp in the daylight.
 
How the heck are you going to lug around enough 12 gauge rounds for your shotgun to be "versatile" in a wilderness setting?

Really, I duck hunt out of a kayak and 3 boxes is a PIA. Your gonna carry a 12 gauge that weighs twice what a .22 rifle weighs and then add about 4 lbs for every box of 25 rounds depending.

I'm going to take my chances with the .22 and snares as you suggested.

It's not as accurate as many calibers, but it IS accurate enough.

It's not as powerful as some calibers, but it IS powerful enough.

.22lr has been filling the pot with rabbit, squirrel, groundhog/Marmot, prarie dog, coyote, turkey and darn near any other animal up to about 50 lbs pretty effectively for a long time.

While the 12 gauge IS a more versatile firearm (the not disagreeing part), it is not the best, in my opinion for non-defensive wilderness survival.
 
I believe the claim is .22 caliber has killed more people...that would include the .223, .222, .220 swift, .22 hornet, etc. correct? Anywho, I have several .22's and think they are great. Many of the older generations killed 100's of deer with little .22's (older being like my great grandfather). As a matter of fact the two main rifles my great grandfather used were a .22 and a 12 gauge shotgun(long gun). I would still suspect if you needed to draw fast in a "you vs. bear" situation a short barrelled 12ga. with buckshot followed by slug would be the best...buckshot to disorient and slug to hopefully kill. Sidenote though...my favorite round would be either .223 or .222 because I can kill just about everything in my area of the country and I can do it from a good distance.
 
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