Is there a lawyer in the house?

Triton

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Aug 8, 2000
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So, I've got this issue...

As a sideline I build custom sword / knife scabbards for customers. It pays fairly well and it is gratifying to be able to provide customers with a quality product for a reasonable price. I've been doing this for years with little in the way of drama.

However, at the moment I've got a little bit of drama. The way it typically works is a customer sends me their sword, I do up custom work to their specifications and ship the whole package back to them. In this case I got a scabbard done and notified the customer. He gives me a story about car troubles etc and says he can't pay. He wants to do installments. I'm not a bank and tell him to put it on a credit card. He refuses to do that. Then he tells me that he is getting a new job which should help his financial situation. He tells me he will pay the entire bill in September. Sword and scabbard go in the safe. There they sit. Obviously he didn't pay in September. If it was a smaller amount I would just send him his sword back and tell him to have a nice life. However in this case it's a 400 dollar bill and there is little chance I can sell the scabbard to someone else because it is so customized.

So... my options are:

1) Take it on the chin and send him his sword back.
2) See if I can get him to pay on installments
3) Sell the sword and scabbard for some small price although I'll undoubtedly lose money in order to sell the package and chances are good that this will cause additional drama.

It's the third option I want to ask about.

Do I have a legal right to do alternative 3? This seems like it would be analogous to a car repair shop that is not being paid for repairs but I don't know...

Thoughts?
 
Wiould it be legal to email the buyer a contract that states that they will receive their scabbard, along with their sword when payment, in full, is made?

I've had to sign quotes/estimates/contracts for landscapers and other home improvement providers and email a scan or photo of the signed document back before they'd schedule the work.
 
OP, before you go down option # 3, do some research on Aritsan's Lien and also Possessory Lien as applied to your State's laws where the work took place and also where you have current possession of this item.

I could not look it up for you because your profile does not indicate as to which state you are domiciled in.
 
Wiould it be legal to email the buyer a contract that states that they will receive their scabbard, along with their sword when payment, in full, is made?

I've had to sign quotes/estimates/contracts for landscapers and other home improvement providers and email a scan or photo of the signed document back before they'd schedule the work.

Good question, I was considering doing that very thing. I have a worklist that I send where they detail exactly what I want. That's to both make sure I do what they want and to ensure that they can't come back later and say they wanted "X, Y and Z" which I didn't do. I thought about adding some legaleze at the bottom that says that payment is to be remitted in full at the time of project completion.
 
OP, before you go down option # 3, do some research on Aritsan's Lien and also Possessory Lien as applied to your State's laws where the work took place and also where you have current possession of this item.

I could not look it up for you because your profile does not indicate as to which state you are domiciled in.

Thank you, I will have a look using those key phrases. I am in Alabama. It might get a bit tricky since nearly 100% of my customers are out of state.
 
I did email the guy, and he claims he will send payment this week. We will see. None the less this is still something I apparently need to address for the future.
 
No legal advice here but may I say - Trust that the guy is legitimately in financial straights (not everyone "manages" their finances and hobbies wisely) but has offered to pay on the lay away plan. You have the sword and scabbard so what is there for you to loose but a little time.

Take him up on his offer. Ask him to come up with a payment plan that works for him and does not exceed 6 months. You might offer a few ideas that would suit you - say $ 100.00 each month by the 15th by PayPal or check in the mail. If by PP - only G&S and he pays the additional fees. If by check, you will know by the next payment whether his check are any good. Be flexible with the plan but once you both agree be a bastard about making him stick to it and let him know there will be consequences if he reneges. ALL THIS IN WRITING.

Additional term should be that his items won't leave your hands UNTIL the final payment has been processed.
If he balks at that - then tough luck cookie. You have his stuff and he's got wishes. At that point I would consider your # 3 option. Not before.

My 2¢ Good luck.

Ray
 
I would most certainly hold the sword as collateral until he pays. If he never pays, I don't think you are in any legal jeopardy. Especially if the sword is worth about what he owes you.
 
This may be a variation of #3:

What does your state say about abandoned property, after what length of time is it yours?
 
Thank you, I will have a look using those key phrases. I am in Alabama. It might get a bit tricky since nearly 100% of my customers are out of state.

Where the customer hails from is irrelevant unless the work contact was originally executed in his state of domicile. Your OP states that he the customer sent the sword to you, therefore where you have possession of the sword (in AL) and where the contract was executed is where those liens potentially apply if you elect to go # 3. My point was if you elect to go that route, educate yourself on your state laws to have your bases covered.
 
Note: Not legal advice, just my thoughts.

I wouldn't take any kind of payment plan, personally. If I was willing to wait I would tell him to set the money aside and send me the full amount at once. If I'm in possession of the goods and he has the money, I'm pretty comfortable knowing where I stand, same if I have the money and he has the goods, but I personally wouldn't wanna be in a place where I had some of the money and the goods. Just seems like it could be a bad position if things went sideways.
 
Note: Not legal advice, just my thoughts.

I wouldn't take any kind of payment plan, personally. If I was willing to wait I would tell him to set the money aside and send me the full amount at once. If I'm in possession of the goods and he has the money, I'm pretty comfortable knowing where I stand, same if I have the money and he has the goods, but I personally wouldn't wanna be in a place where I had some of the money and the goods. Just seems like it could be a bad position if things went sideways.

Thinking about it I'm more inclined to go with this "better advice" ^ though - I would not dismiss the there is some merit to going along with the guy's request to pay as he can afford it. Lest you walk in another man's shoes ...

Ray
 
So, I've got this issue...

As a sideline I build custom sword / knife scabbards for customers. It pays fairly well and it is gratifying to be able to provide customers with a quality product for a reasonable price. I've been doing this for years with little in the way of drama.

However, at the moment I've got a little bit of drama. The way it typically works is a customer sends me their sword, I do up custom work to their specifications and ship the whole package back to them. In this case I got a scabbard done and notified the customer. He gives me a story about car troubles etc and says he can't pay. He wants to do installments. I'm not a bank and tell him to put it on a credit card. He refuses to do that. Then he tells me that he is getting a new job which should help his financial situation. He tells me he will pay the entire bill in September. Sword and scabbard go in the safe. There they sit. Obviously he didn't pay in September. If it was a smaller amount I would just send him his sword back and tell him to have a nice life. However in this case it's a 400 dollar bill and there is little chance I can sell the scabbard to someone else because it is so customized.

So... my options are:

1) Take it on the chin and send him his sword back.
2) See if I can get him to pay on installments
3) Sell the sword and scabbard for some small price although I'll undoubtedly lose money in order to sell the package and chances are good that this will cause additional drama.

It's the third option I want to ask about.

Do I have a legal right to do alternative 3? This seems like it would be analogous to a car repair shop that is not being paid for repairs but I don't know...

Thoughts?

What type of written agreement do you have? As usual, it's not until we have drama do we realize we probably should have better contracts and paper work. You might want to at least go 50% upfront and 50% on completion of a project policy which is a common approach giving both parties risk sharing and such. You could also warn him in writing that if he does not pay his bill by X date, option 3 is how you plan to recoup the loss. That way again, you have a paper trail and gave him appropriate warnings as the the outcome of not paying for work done. I don't make scabbards, but BTDT as far as your situation and learned the hard way. Now, if I know them it's the 50/50 deal, if not, 100% upfront. Don't like it, use someone else. ;)
 
No legal advice here but may I say - Trust that the guy is legitimately in financial straights (not everyone "manages" their finances and hobbies wisely) but has offered to pay on the lay away plan. You have the sword and scabbard so what is there for you to loose but a little time.

Take him up on his offer. Ask him to come up with a payment plan that works for him and does not exceed 6 months. You might offer a few ideas that would suit you - say $ 100.00 each month by the 15th by PayPal or check in the mail. If by PP - only G&S and he pays the additional fees. If by check, you will know by the next payment whether his check are any good. Be flexible with the plan but once you both agree be a bastard about making him stick to it and let him know there will be consequences if he reneges. ALL THIS IN WRITING.

Additional term should be that his items won't leave your hands UNTIL the final payment has been processed.
If he balks at that - then tough luck cookie. You have his stuff and he's got wishes. At that point I would consider your # 3 option. Not before.

My 2¢ Good luck.

Ray
Thanks, I really appreciate the "not legal advice " thoughts.:)
 
Simple... Always get payed first, then HONOR your engagement... Never fails. The third world rule.

Do you mean ask for payment up front? I would never do that when hiring a custom knife maker... There are too many cases of good guys gone bad..
 
Note: Not legal advice, just my thoughts.

I wouldn't take any kind of payment plan, personally. If I was willing to wait I would tell him to set the money aside and send me the full amount at once. If I'm in possession of the goods and he has the money, I'm pretty comfortable knowing where I stand, same if I have the money and he has the goods, but I personally wouldn't wanna be in a place where I had some of the money and the goods. Just seems like it could be a bad position if things went sideways.


Thanks, I really appreciate your thoughts as well.
 
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