Is this a Schrade fake?

Motey · Jan 28, 2015

A knife I saw on eBay... I thought the tang stamp looked particularly wonky. Is it a fake, frankenknife or just a crappy Chinese made "Schrade"? Item number 161574834214...

thawk · Jan 28, 2015

I'd like to see the whole knife, but it looks like a ground off original tang stamp, and this stamp is very unofficial for USA Schrades. I think it might be a factory second.

delmas2nd · Jan 29, 2015

or a taylor 2nd? couldn't resist. makes one wonder what they do with their 2nds? or do they ever have any?

koldgold · Jan 29, 2015

I would not buy a knife with "SCHRADE" stamped on it.
Even when Schrade started to have their knive made in China, Schrade stamped them "Schrde China".
Taylor Brands just stamped there knives "SCHRADE"
It has always been hard to find anything made in the USA; without the maker proudly saying made in the USA.
My dear old dad told me that 60 years ago. Ken.

This is a "SCHRADE"

This one is a "SCHRADE U.S.A." they look much the same.

Saddlebum · Jan 29, 2015

I have seen several of those type tang stamps and when I do, I click it away. I have been fooled twice by the elaborate copies made by Taylor, but that was years ago when I didn't know any better. I'm so leary of getting scammed again that even now if I find a really pristine USA Schrade that is of the type that I got scammed on in the past, I investigate and ask the seller questions. Like this one, for instance. The box says Schrade Walden and the tang stamp says Schrade NY USA 881Y. A Schrade Walden Taylor I bought of the same kind said USA on it too. That and the mint condition of the knife and tube it came in made me wonder. When I asked the seller when he bought the knife he said that he used to work in promotional marketing and bought that and other knives directly from Schrade in Ellenville in the '80s. I couldn't hardly wait to buy the knife!

Well, I was going to post a picture of the knife and it's original Schrade Walden plastic tube, but I can't get on myhostedpics.com where my pictures are. I haven't been able to bring it up for days now. Maybe I need a new host. Any suggestions?

tongueriver · Jan 29, 2015

When Schrade Walden became Schrade Cutlery in 1973 they had a lot of those Walden plastic tubes and they continued to use them, I suppose until they were gone. I have some post-Walden knives in Walden tubes and I don't think there was any monkey business. Btw, Schrade moved from Walden to Ellenville in 1958, not 1973. Not everyone knows that. There are 4 kinds of Schrades with Walden tang-stamps that I am aware of so far. The originals, 1946 to 1973. Then in the later years they started putting it on a few special editions, but I truly can't remember which ones, off the bat. Then Camillus made some muskrats with one spey blade, 4 inch stockmans, and trappers. I think they were all yellow Delrin. These were after the bankruptcy. Then GEC made some big "bullet" type trappers.Then it was turned over to Bear MGC, or Bear & Sons. They made muskrats, 4 inch stockmans and trappers, and a razor jack. These were all in genuine bone and had only one pin. The covers were glued on. Finally Utica Cutlery has been making the 897UH pattern and trappers in genuine bone. These are all stamped Schrade Walden, NY, USA, or Schrade Walden, USA. All of these knives were made in the United States. Before the bankruptcy, there were Schrades made at Ulster, Camillus and Imperial. It is all very convoluted. No Chinese knives will have USA stamped on them; that is against the law and Taylor has never done it. There are a very few genuine pre-bankruptcy Schrade that DO NOT have USA stamped on them. I know this is true for the D'Holder fixed blades and their marketing companions, the Lake and Walkers. There may have been others that I have forgotten. I have never seen a Kious or Barrett.

SAK Guy · Jan 29, 2015

Such great info in this thread! Thanks!

koldgold · Jan 30, 2015

Both the D'holder and the Lake & Walker One were not stamped. I think the BG42 blade would be too hard to stamp.
The 2002-2003 production Lake & Walker Two was stamped U.S.A.
The late 881 knives that came in a tin in the clam pack, have stainless blades. I see them on eBay from time to time.
I have been using the same old 881 since 1973... Ken

This is what your 881 lloks like, I hope you like it.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

tongueriver said:
No Chinese knives will have USA stamped on them; that is against the law and Taylor has never done it.

You are correct. But Taylor did/does? market the Schrade Walden name with American made knives out of NY. I can't remember now who someone told me the company was/is. I don't know if Taylor is still doing that or not. Just the other day on ebay I saw the Schrade Walden Taylor 881Y knife that I was tricked into buying years ago. It comes in a tube with a liner that very closely resembles the pre-'73 Schrade Walden ones. After I got the knife in the mail I started looking it over and found Taylor's name in small print on the inside of the liner. I can't remember what the tang stamp looked like now. But it did say Schrade Walden on it. That is why I really don't like Taylor. They try and succeed in fooling people into buying their copies, IMO.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

koldgold said:
This is what your 881 lloks like, I hope you like it.

That's a nice one. Mine does look exactly like that one except it has the newer box that just says Schrade on the little banner. It's my 881Y that has the leftover SW liner to go with my just plain Schrade 881Y. Wish i could get it together to post the pictures. I'll have to work on that tomorrow.

Codger_64 · Jan 30, 2015

Saddlebum said:
.....Wish i could get it together to post the pictures. I'll have to work on that tomorrow.

Upload them to tinypic.com and copy/paste the

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

Thanks, Codger. I'll use tinypic to get this done and try to figure out what happened to myhostedpics later. I have a bunch of pics stored on that one. Here are the auction pictures that I got nervous about because of the difference in labeling and tang stamp and it's perfect condition. Turned out to be a spotless, well preserved vintage Schrade Cutlery 881Y from the '80s. I know that Ellenville, Ny. is visible on the liner but the Taylor copy I had bought before was so convincing that it fooled the seller and I have seen better collectors than me get fooled so I asked the seller when he bought it. Just to be sure. I have since learned to better idenify the different liners in the tube.

[/IMG]

And here's my 881 with matching tube liner.

I just copied this Taylor off of ebay for example purposes. It doesn't have the deceptive tube and liner with it, but I'm pretty sure this is the one I bought years ago before I knew any better. Notice the tang stamp. I was ticked off and returned the knife to the seller when I read the word Taylor LLC in small print on the inside of the well replicated tube liner. Without the tube liner, (which was good imitation of the real thing), it is much more difficult to tell that this one is a Taylor. The seller had advertised it in such a way as to make me think it was a pre-2004 Schrade. Yes, it was made in the USA, BUT, not by Schrade Cutlery. From what I can remember, they were made in Walden, Ny. buy a company that I can't remember. I know I'm not supposed to post about live auctions on ebay, but just for this discussion's purpose, the seller doesn't mention Taylor Brands (most likely doesn't know himself) and the asking price is more in line with a vintage Schrade Cutlery knife. To the inexperienced collector and some experienced guys, this is a trap. After studying tang stamps, stamp lettering fonts, shields, types of scales on the handles, blade shapes, packaging and other factors, it becomes easier to spot the Taylors. This knife raises red flags for me now because of the SCHRADE stamp on the shield and the way the scales are fashioned. I've never seen a SCHRADE stamped shield of that shape on a Schrade Walden 881Y except for this one. The only example of that shield that I know of on a yellow Schrade is the much newer SFO 296Y and the limited one year only 8OT. The tang stamp is very realistic though in my opinion. I should mention that it is also tang stamped on the back of the clip blade, 881Y. Pretty realistic copy.

Another example without the imitation tube liner mine had.

And another, with the convincing tube liner. Only $115 at our favorite shopping site.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

tongueriver said:
When Schrade Walden became Schrade Cutlery in 1973 they had a lot of those Walden plastic tubes and they continued to use them, I suppose until they were gone. I have some post-Walden knives in Walden tubes and I don't think there was any monkey business. Btw, Schrade moved from Walden to Ellenville in 1958, not 1973. Not everyone knows that. There are 4 kinds of Schrades with Walden tang-stamps that I am aware of so far. The originals, 1946 to 1973. Then in the later years they started putting it on a few special editions, but I truly can't remember which ones, off the bat. Then Camillus made some muskrats with one spey blade, 4 inch stockmans, and trappers. I think they were all yellow Delrin. These were after the bankruptcy. Then GEC made some big "bullet" type trappers.Then it was turned over to Bear MGC, or Bear & Sons. They made muskrats, 4 inch stockmans and trappers, and a razor jack. These were all in genuine bone and had only one pin. The covers were glued on. Finally Utica Cutlery has been making the 897UH pattern and trappers in genuine bone. These are all stamped Schrade Walden, NY, USA, or Schrade Walden, USA. All of these knives were made in the United States. Before the bankruptcy, there were Schrades made at Ulster, Camillus and Imperial. It is all very convoluted. No Chinese knives will have USA stamped on them; that is against the law and Taylor has never done it. There are a very few genuine pre-bankruptcy Schrade that DO NOT have USA stamped on them. I know this is true for the D'Holder fixed blades and their marketing companions, the Lake and Walkers. There may have been others that I have forgotten. I have never seen a Kious or Barrett.

I meant to thank you for the information. When I was considering the matter of miss matched tube liners to tang stamps, I thought that using up leftover Schrade Walden tube liners might be the case. And was hoping that it wasn't a combination of knife and tube someone put together to sell as a set.

tongueriver · Jan 30, 2015

Saddlebum said:
And was hoping that it wasn't a combination of knife and tube someone put together to sell as a set.

That is also done.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

tongueriver said:
That is also done.

Yep. I confess to doing it once myself with a blue bone handled PH2 and pairing it with a PH2 box I had bought separately. Come to think of it, I bought the correct sheath for it separately too. The guy I sold it to loved it. I recently took a plain looking 285UH out of it's box and replaced it with a prettier one that I have that didn't have a box. But that's not as bad. Or is my conscience seared?

I see some pretty bad pairing of knives and sheaths sometimes too. Something like a hunting knife paired with a fillet knife sheath. I saw something like that the other day. Pretty tacky!

tongueriver · Jan 30, 2015

The ebay is a marvelous stage, with every character you can imagine, a parade of mis-spelled words, absurd provenance, wonderful B.S., great bargains and criminal mischief. The finest vaudeville, ever. One of my favorite scenes is a fixed blade knife jammed into a sheath upside down. Or the "dug" knife, so rusted together that it looks like a muddy carrot. How about the $32 knives for sale (BIN) for $3200? Fun stuff, indeed (caveat emptor maximus)!

thawk · Jan 30, 2015

tongueriver said:
The ebay is a marvelous stage, with every character you can imagine, a parade of mis-spelled words, absurd provenance, wonderful B.S., great bargains and criminal mischief. The finest vaudeville, ever. One of my favorite scenes is a fixed blade knife jammed into a sheath upside down. Or the "dug" knife, so rusted together that it looks like a muddy carrot. How about the $32 knives for sale (BIN) for $3200? Fun stuff, indeed (caveat emptor maximus)!

Amen brother! :thumbup:

koldgold · Jan 30, 2015

Saddlebum said:
Yep. I confess to doing it once myself with a blue bone handled PH2 and pairing it with a PH2 box I had bought separately. Come to think of it, I bought the correct sheath for it separately too. The guy I sold it to loved it. I recently took a plain looking 285UH out of it's box and replaced it with a prettier one that I have that didn't have a box. But that's not as bad. Or is my conscience seared? I see some pretty bad pairing of knives and sheaths sometimes too. Something like a hunting knife paired with a fillet knife sheath. I saw something like that the other day. Pretty tacky!

Tell me more about the "I confess to doing it once myself with a blue bone handled PH2 and pairing it with a PH2 box I had bought separately." what did you sell it for $$$. They are a nice hard to find knife... Ken.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

tongueriver said:
The ebay is a marvelous stage, with every character you can imagine, a parade of mis-spelled words, absurd provenance, wonderful B.S., great bargains and criminal mischief. The finest vaudeville, ever. One of my favorite scenes is a fixed blade knife jammed into a sheath upside down. Or the "dug" knife, so rusted together that it looks like a muddy carrot. How about the $32 knives for sale (BIN) for $3200? Fun stuff, indeed (caveat emptor maximus)!

Yep! Pretty funny. Some days I love it, (usually when I score a nice knife cheap from someone who doesn't know what they have or how much it's worth and/or posted terrible pictures, posted it as "Knife" and it turns out to be a gem, or wrong info about the knife so nobody would bid on it unless they were paying close attention), or hate it when having to deal with a jerk. I have become pretty good at decerning bad photography from a bad knife and sorting through the lies, hype and inaccuracies of the post heading and descriptions. But once in a while I fool myself. I got a new in box 168UH Walleye in mint condition for $25.00 once because they posted real fuzzy pictures at odd angles. Then, as near as I could tell, copied and pasted the description of the chinese Taylor knock-off. Even posted "MADE IN CHINA'' in large red letters. Even through the bad pics I could see USA on the knife and paperwork. No one wanted it but me. Another thing that can either aggravate you or make you do a happy dance is ebay's crappy search engine and followed searches. That can work (or not work) in your favor or drive me crazy. I just got a pretty mint Ulster 208SS Fisherman's Pride with it's leather sheath the other day by looking for it on my own. Not a peep out of followed searches. That was a good day. Bad day a couple of weeks ago when I bought a 293Y that looked good in the pics, but looked like a different knife when I got it. I swear the pictures looked photoshopped and erased the rust on the blades. It's not that bad for $23.50, but not the knife that was in the picture. The rust isn't that bad and the rest of the knife is great so I just gave the seller a piece of my mind and let it slide. Still, if I hold the knife up to the picture all you can see in the picture is faint light spots where the black rust is on the knife blade. Sure looks photoshopped.

Saddlebum · Jan 30, 2015

koldgold said:
Tell me more about the "I confess to doing it once myself with a blue bone handled PH2 and pairing it with a PH2 box I had bought separately." what did you sell it for $$$. They are a nice hard to find knife... Ken.

It was about 5 years ago so I don't remember what I got for it. I remember being as happy as the buyer though. I bought the knife by itself. Don't remember how much that was either, but pretty cheap I think. Then I bought the correct black sheath for it from a guy on ebay who had a bunch of them in PH1 and PH2. Then some other guy had a bunch of different factory boxes and I bought one for a standard PH2 to keep the knife and sheath in. Some time later when I needed money, I sold it. It was a Ducks Unlimited SFO that didn't have the shield on the handle or blade etch. So it was nice, but not that special. Still have pictures of it but they're not that good. I only did it once. Does that make me a bad man?

Is this a Schrade fake?

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