Is this being too picky?

S

Skellz

Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
3
Ok so I'd like to get some opinions on whether or not i'm being too picky about this. Recieved this Ontario RAT model 2 folder yesterday from a good supplier in my country, however I noticed that the liner locks up on the tang really far to the right and ignores at least 50% of the tang on the left side. This seems to leave me about 0.2 - 0.5mm before the liner starts to reach the end of the blade tang on the right side and the ball bearing for rentention is not far from touching the other side of the liner either.

To me this seems as though It should be sent back as surely the liner lock should lock up earlier than this on the tang of a brand new knife? Have they not ground the tang sufficiently or is this normal and nothing to really worry about? I've not had this problem with some spyderco and benchmades that were liner locks, or even cheap chinese knives for that matter.

Pics are not brilliant sorry, best I can do with my camera:

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Cheers.
 
My lockup is the same on my RAT 1 and RAT 2. I have had no problems with it at all. Still cuts and so smooth to open. I would not worry about it.
 
I would say its fine as long as your lock doesnt move so far to the right that it either jams or develops rocking. Every company it seems has a different approach to lock up. You knife as it is doesnt look out of place for many liner locks. As much as I appreciate waterbeef trying to help, im hoping his reply is an attempt to be funny. There is simply no acceptable reason to put anything on the face of a lock in a folding knife. Its asking for trouble and it wont last long. The ONLY exception to the rule would be to carbidize the liner. This is where you use almost an improvized welding device that uses tungsten rods and electricity to plate the surface with tungsten. IA few guys on this forum have one and could do the job for you. This would apply a thin layer of tungsten to the face of your lock. In most cases this is used on a titanium frame lock to prevent stickiness and improve wear resistance of the lock face. But in your case stickiness isnt a problem and would simply add a little material to the lockface which would hopefully give you a little earlier lock up as well as prevent the liner lock itself from wearing down. I dont know where you live so this might not be an option for you.
 
That's WAY too far over; I've heard of some Rat 2's having late lockup but that is too late IMO. Mine was at approx. 30% and has not moved with use...

If you're into DIY fixes you can try peening the extreme end of the lockbar that contacts the blade's tang with a pin punch and hammer; if done correctly it'll hopefully squish (technical term) out the metal and create earlier lockup...

Or, option two; send it back! :D Good luck either way.
 
Cheers for the replies guys, yeah I felt like the lock up was too late compared to my other liner locks which have had some hard use and dont have this problem. I dont fancy putting any paper or plasters on the tang of the knife to be honest, cant see that it would stop the problem for long. I've decided to send it back to the dealer I purchased from as It's the only way i'll feel content I think. The blade thickness is quite thin and although it might be without play now, I dont know how long that may last being that it actually touches the liner with the ball bearing rentention when i flick it open with authority and i've not even cut a thing with it yet. I live in the UK so sending over to anyone in the states would not be worthwhile lol, plus over here this knife cost me £36 ($55) which isn't that cheap considering for another £4 i can get the RAT-1 folder (a good knife, used to own 2), you boys get sweet prices over there!
 
IMHO, a lock that is 75%+ engaged from the start is a manufacturing defect, i'd send it back.

Wrapping the stop pin in paper or plastic will not last very long.
Carbidizing the lockface will not add metal, it is a surface treatment.
Peening the lockbar end is also doomed to failure, it will wear out and cause lock rock.
 
I have the same problem with my buck vantage force its very close to touching the opposing liner if i put a little pressure on the lock then it touches i prefer mine to be in the 30-40%lockup not 90%
 
Karda said:
Carbidizing the lockface will not add metal, it is a surface treatment.
Click to expand...
Caburzing is a treatment of metal that doesnt add metal or thickness. Carbidizing is different. It does add a thin layer of tungsten carbide on top of the titanium or steel. The tungsten rod has electricity applied to it and basically transfers it from the rod to the surface its being applied to. It doesnt change the existing metal but actually puts a layer over it. The below quote is taken from a knifemakers supply site where they sell and use the tool.

"You will probably have to refit the lock as the carbide/tungsten deposited on the lock face will add a few thousands. The advantage is you have a hardened lock face that isn't as sticky and won't gall like Titanium. A very subtle but very nice finishing touch for your liner or frame locks"
 
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PURPLEDC said:
Caburzing is a treatment of metal that doesnt add metal or thickness. Carbidizing is different. It does add a thin layer of tungsten carbide on top of the titanium or steel. The tungsten rod has electricity applied to it and basically transfers it from the rod to the surface its being applied to. It doesnt change the existing metal but actually puts a layer over it. The below quote is taken from a knifemakers supply site where they sell and use the tool.

"You will probably have to refit the lock as the carbide/tungsten deposited on the lock face will add a few thousands. The advantage is you have a hardened lock face that isn't as sticky and won't gall like Titanium. A very subtle but very nice finishing touch for your liner or frame locks"
Click to expand...
Noone said anything about carburizing.
Just as I said, Carbidizing is a surface treatment. Its gonna take more than a few thousandths to fix that lock.
Your solution to his problem is to spend $50+ dollars + shipping to have someone do it, or $200 + to be able to do it himself on a $30 knife.......
 
If you haven't used the knife you might try to exchange it where you bought it. Otherwise send it in.
 
Do you have blade play? Does the lock fail with a back spine test?

I might be able to live with it if none of the above are present. But then again, if warranty covers it, why not?
 
Not at all, I don't mind it being deep, but to each there own

I'd return it if it a big problem for you
 
viper89 said:
My lockup is the same on my RAT 1 and RAT 2. I have had no problems with it at all. Still cuts and so smooth to open. I would not worry about it.
Click to expand...

+1 I too was slightly alarmed at the late lock up on a Rat 2 I recieved a few weeks ago, however after some searching...it seems that this is common for the Rat 1 & 2 as many have commented on it but lock-up seems to remain the same after much time and use for many.

*My first post by the way...really enjoy the forum and have learned a lot by lurking for a few years before joining.
 
Late lockup is probably fine if it doesn't move over any farther, but you don't know if it will or not without using it a bunch. I'd just send it in for peace of mind and get one that suits you better.
 
Karda said:
Noone said anything about carburizing.
Just as I said, Carbidizing is a surface treatment. Its gonna take more than a few thousandths to fix that lock.
Your solution to his problem is to spend $50+ dollars + shipping to have someone do it, or $200 + to be able to do it himself on a $30 knife.......
Click to expand...

You stated that carbidizing is a surface treatment and doesnt add any metal to the lock face and is simply a surface treatment. By your statment, I thought maybe you had the terms confused. But since you werent confused, im curious. How much material would have to be deposited to the lock face for you to consider it an increase? Im pretty sure if you ground off a few thousandths off the lock face of a sebenza it would be enough for chris reeve or most makers to consider it a decrease in material. I would only think adding a carbide layer up to .007" thick would be considered an increase by most peoples standards. Especially considering the actual thickness of the carbide layer can be varied with the amount of current your applying it with. Which of course would be pointless since varying the thickness of a carbide layer would be pointless if it didnt actually add any thickness at all. So I ask you, how thick does a carbide layer or a layer of anything have to be to stop being simply a surface treatment that adds nothing to being and addition of something?
 
PURPLEDC said:
You stated that carbidizing is a surface treatment and doesnt add any metal to the lock face and is simply a surface treatment. By your statment, I thought maybe you had the terms confused. But since you werent confused, im curious. How much material would have to be deposited to the lock face for you to consider it an increase? Im pretty sure if you ground off a few thousandths off the lock face of a sebenza it would be enough for chris reeve or most makers to consider it a decrease in material. I would only think adding a carbide layer up to .007" thick would be considered an increase by most peoples standards. Especially considering the actual thickness of the carbide layer can be varied with the amount of current your applying it with. Which of course would be pointless since varying the thickness of a carbide layer would be pointless if it didnt actually add any thickness at all. So I ask you, how thick does a carbide layer or a layer of anything have to be to stop being simply a surface treatment that adds nothing to being and addition of something?
Click to expand...

Not enough to fix poor workmanship.
Argumentativeness notwithstanding.
Still, it's completely pointless to do this on a $30 knife.......
Especially when there are so many better choices from manufacturers that get it right.
 
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