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Issue with member “Archer59”

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Boru13 said:
After reading this thread a couple of times, here's my opinion.

B BM-EDC
You should have inspected the knife before you listed it for sale, just because the box was factory sealed does not absolve you of any responsibility... if you had bought the knife to keep for yourself, I'm quite sure upon opening the box and seeing the defect you would have returned the knife for either an exchange or refund.

@Archer59
You should have asked for pictures of the knife before buying it instead of being content with pictures of a knife box. You have mentioned several times in this thread that Benchmade doesn't use tape on their boxes but you were willing to purchase the knife with pictures clearly showing tape on the box... if you really believed that Benchmade didn't use tape, why in the hell would you have followed through with the purchase.

FYI, I'm good friends with a stocking Benchmade dealer, they do use the circular tape on the box.

Now I have a question for both of you.

B BM-EDC
In your for sale thread you said US sales only... did you know you were shipping to a 3rd party?

@Archer59
How did you or you friend pay for the knife?
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After reading all of this thread ... smh ...

it's good to see a post with some CALM logic ... no swearing or acccusing ... but some simple guidelines and questions trying to help solve the issue ...

sadly this is why most refuse to ship overseas or sell throught a third party shipper ... there are many horror stories about this ...

I do know many collectors of anything from knives or guns to toys and hot wheels cars ... and they do pay premium for in box sealed ...

me ... as a buyer I want to see what I'm paying for ...

it seems both sides could have handled this far better and as adults ... yes it's more complicated by a third party and customs etc ...

my first suggestion would be for the buyer or his third party shipper to contact Benchmade and see what they offer for resolution ...

and if they will replace or repair then in my opinion the buyer and seller should split the costs of having that done and a hard lesson learned.

And to the buyer ... threats were made by reading ... how you meant it was not obvious ... maybe that is doe to english not being your first language but swearing in every other posts gets you nothing but blocked by other members ...

To the seller ... the first page is just you and walls of text ... if you wanted help or suggestions simply ask ... you jumped in the mud with the seller ...

I hate seeing these threads and I'm sure everyone has their opinions and most are different ... the situation isn't a simple one ... but you are both adults and assumed risk and responsibility with the basis of this particular deal by descrition ...

be adults and work together to mitigate issues and resolve it in the best least expensive manner and both chalk it up to a mistake ...

no need to drag it through the mud anymore ... hopefully it gets fixed and you both take part in that expense.
 
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I copied this from a thread about proxy buying that seemed appropriate to add here it was posted by @Coreman ... this is copied and pasted and is his post ...

Being an international buyer... this is how I conduct business with respected Forum members step wise.
1) I don't send "I'll take it" on the main thread (on most of my purchases), so that if the sale doesn't fall through, that othermembers will not have "concluded ideas "or tag this product as questionable , but a"PM sent" suffice .
2) my private message state clearly the following points:
A. I'll take it.
B. Full disclosure being an international buyer with a shipping address in the US. And that the shipping shall the deal be conducted, will be domestic.
C. Clear statement that when the knife lands safely at my shipping address and is delivered with signature (if requested), then the seller is free from responsibility of what happens next.( for example if the shipment was lost on it's way to my home address).
D. Stating clearly that the only payment option available through my PayPal is Goods and services.

Now these are the broad lines for a deal for me, However I discuss the condition of the knife, details ( might request more pics)... etc.

That been said, here is The reality part...
There will always be risks and surprises.
I personally recieved not once, several items that were not 100% as described, or had an issue with the built, that might be a deal breaker for a lot, (from what I read here at the Forum).
For me I always give the benefit of doubt to the seller, and I try to think of it , that it is only fair, provided the relatively added risk one takes on their behalf of the deal.
I found courteous, and timely communications to be the major contributors to my experience here at this beloved Forum.
Needless to mention that thebeginnings were so difficult in terms of trust and dealings, yet that it is only justified, provided that we don't meet in person to fulfill an important part of personal assessment and evaluation.
I was denied purchases on several occasions, based on seller preferences, and it is completely OK with me as there are always other chances, and the seller has the right to do whatever he sees feasible with his merchandise.
Besides...waiting only keeps the excitement more.

Sorry for the lengthy message.
 
I just noticed this thread and hesitate to comment as to not wanting to derail any forward progress toward resolution.

I know this buyer for approximately 10yrs. I know him to be a man of high integrity. The only intial threat I read was w/ a keyboard, "the power of the pen", if you will. I will not pretend I know how the seller felt as to this threat, but it seemed pretty clear..that the buyer was going to "out" the seller...and not attempt to Frisbee the keyboard over the Atlantic or board a plane/ship to cause physical harm.

The stated fact that this knife was never inspected before it left hand and or state side seems less than prudent, by both parties.

I am happy to see the seller accepting his part of due responsibility in this matter. The things we do as enthusiasts, in this hobby, are a little more nuanced than just typical retail sales/transactions ..there is an etiquette and protocols both spoken and non spoken...where both parties, in this case, seemed to have dropped the ball.

Very happy to see this moving towards a resolve.
 
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10 Gauge said:
For all the seller knows the buyer had this identical knife already that's in disrepair and now trying to claim that the knife he received is the defective one to try and shift the broken one for a new one. I am not saying this is the case, this is completely hypothetical, but no one in this transaction REALLY knows each other or their integrity, you can claim integrity and honesty until you're blue in the face, this goes for both sides, but doesn't necessarily make it true. It would appear in this case that the seller truly did not know the condition of the knife as it was factory sealed and should have never been missed by @Benchmade QC inspection. Buyer bought the knife sight unseen as new in a SEALED box, meaning the buyer acknowledges the seller would have not known about any kind of defect the knife would have had. I'd say this is squarely on the buyer to remedy with Benchmade directly at this point. Buyer could have asked seller to unbox and document condition before the sale was finalized.
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I could state that it could be as easily and more likely argued that the seller was aware of the defect. Awful convenient that the only knife "never opened" was the one w/ a defect.

Is it reasonable to believe this knife was never at least peeked at by the seller? A Limited, higher end knife..at least out of curiosity? Ok.

Is it unreasonable to belive that buyer might have felt taken advantage of, regardless of what the facts might be..?

Again, to buy or sell this item sight unseen is foolish and unreasonable.

Those sticker seals are easily removed/replaced. As to the why? Perhaps the seller didn't want to deal w/ the time and aggrivation of a return for service..wanted an expedited sale..figured a state side sale and would just tell the buyer, on discovery.."oh well, send it in to BM..that's would I would do anyway, so good luck" Or, pound sand..as another member suggested.

I could state all that..but I wont, because it would be irresponsible and a non productive speculation.
 
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Icky Thump said:
I could state that it could be as easily and more likely argued that the seller was aware of the defect. Awful convenient that the only knife "never opened" was the one w/ a defect.

Is it reasonable to believe this knife was never at least peeked at by the seller? A Limited, higher end knife..at least out of curiosity? Ok.

Is it unreasonable to belive that buyer might have felt taken advantage of, regardless of what the facts might be..?

Again, to buy or sell this item sight unseen is foolish and unreasonable.

Those sticker seals are easily removed/replaced. As to the why? Perhaps the seller didn't want to deal w/ the time and aggrivation of a return for service..wanted an expedited sale..figured a state side sale and would just tell the buyer, on discovery.."oh well, send it in to BM..that's would I would do anyway, so good luck" Or, pound sand..as another member suggested.

I could state all that..but I wont, because it would be irresponsible and a non productive speculation.
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I honestly don't think that's what happened, but I don't think it's an unreasonable thought for a buyer to have considering the circumstances. I think it was just plain bad luck and a little carelessness by 2 honest individuals.
 
-Corey- said:
I honestly don't think that's what happened, but I don't think it's an unreasonable thought for a buyer to have considering the circumstances. I think it was just plain bad luck and a little carelessness by 2 honest individuals.
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This might very well be the case. I am sure I don't know.

That post was directed more towards @10 Gauge speculation.
 
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Insipid Moniker said:
Also, people keep insisting this is different. How? How is this in any way different from buying a knife sight unseen from a retailer? Explain it to me, please
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Let's say you and I work at the same place. I go to McDonald's and buy a Bacon McDouble. I take it back to work and decide I don't want it. I sell it to you in the wrapper for a dollar. You don't unwrap it until you get home. When you unwrap it, you see that there are no diced onions. You call me up and ask me to make it right. I don't think I owe it to you to go to your house, pick up the Bacon McDouble, take it to McDonald's to get it corrected, and then return it to you. I don't have a written policy for protection against manufacturing defects. In this case, neither did the seller. SMKW does. Benchmade does. The seller didn't sell a mint-condition knife. He sold a knife sealed in a box that he received brand new, sealed in a box. It would make him a more amicable seller for him to get the knife fixed for the buyer, but I don't think there's any inherent obligation to do so.
 
orangejoe35 said:
Let's say you and I work at the same place. I go to McDonald's and buy a Bacon McDouble. I take it back to work and decide I don't want it. I sell it to you in the wrapper for a dollar. You don't unwrap it until you get home. When you unwrap it, you see that there are no diced onions. You call me up and ask me to make it right. I don't think I owe it to you to go to your house, pick up the Bacon McDouble, take it to McDonald's to get it corrected, and then return it to you. I don't have a written policy for protection against manufacturing defects. In this case, neither did the seller. SMKW does. Benchmade does. The seller didn't sell a mint-condition knife. He sold a knife sealed in a box that he received brand new, sealed in a box. It would make him a more amicable seller for him to get the knife fixed for the buyer, but I don't think there's any inherent obligation to do so.
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You are very right on this, but isn’t there a unwritten rule that states a deal is not complete until both parties are Happy? What screws this up is when a third party gets the item before shipping off to the buyer.
 
woodysone said:
You are very right on this, but isn’t there a unwritten rule that states a deal is not complete until both parties are Happy? What screws this up is when a third party gets the item before shipping off to the buyer.
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I don't disagree with you, but I don't think the buyer's happiness with the quality of the Fact is the seller's responsibility. I think it's Benchmade's. The buyer bought a brand new sealed in box knife, and that's what he got.
 
orangejoe35 said:
Let's say you and I work at the same place. I go to McDonald's and buy a Bacon McDouble. I take it back to work and decide I don't want it. I sell it to you in the wrapper for a dollar. You don't unwrap it until you get home. When you unwrap it, you see that there are no diced onions. You call me up and ask me to make it right. I don't think I owe it to you to go to your house, pick up the Bacon McDouble, take it to McDonald's to get it corrected, and then return it to you. I don't have a written policy for protection against manufacturing defects. In this case, neither did the seller. SMKW does. Benchmade does. The seller didn't sell a mint-condition knife. He sold a knife sealed in a box that he received brand new, sealed in a box. It would make him a more amicable seller for him to get the knife fixed for the buyer, but I don't think there's any inherent obligation to do so.
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If you sell me one with no beef, you're sure as hell gonna make it right, or give my money back and that's much more comparable to the situation at hand.
 
No even if it didn't have the beef assuming he ordered it as such and had every reason to believe that they gave him one with beef it doesn't change anything about the expectations or responsibility in his example.
 
PirateSeulb said:
On that we disagree. Only when purchased through a proper retailer do you have an unquestionable right to returns and exchanges.
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That's true, but legally private sellers have a responsibility to disclose any flaws that would affect the material value of the item in question. Off center blade or gritty opening? Buyer didn't ask, seller is fine. Broken frickin' liner? Now there's an issue.
 
You can't sell an item as sealed and know the conditions of the contents he disclosed all he know and the conditional of the item as best he was able in the state the item was in. I don't disagree that in this case and probably in general in this niche market selling a sealed item serves no one and only invites potential issues.
 
Removed - it appears the issue is going to be resolved.
 
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PirateSeulb said:
You can't sell an item as sealed and know the conditions of the contents he disclosed all he know and the conditional of the item as best he was able in the state the item was in. I don't disagree that in this case and probably in general in this niche market selling a sealed item serves no one and only invites potential issues.
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If it was sealed in tamper proof packaging, I would probably be a little more lenient towards a private seller. But this box was "sealed" with a 1" piece of tape that can easily be removed and stuck back on. To me, there's no added value for an item in a sealed box if that seal is easily compromised. I definitely wouldn't buy something like that sight unseen unless the person selling it was willing to stand behind it if it turned out to not be what it was supposed to be.
 
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