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It followed me home (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by Steve Tall, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Hairy Clipper

    Hairy Clipper Basic Member Basic Member

    240
    Feb 28, 2009
    I have an old carpenter's hatchet that the handle is loose on that I need to address one of these days. I don't even know the maker of it. But it looks like the lads were not bashful the day they put the company's mark on those ACMEs you two have ... Nice! I am glad someone is finding some of this stuff as it is somewhat scarce here.
     
    A17, Fmont, Yankee Josh and 1 other person like this.
  2. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
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    A17, rjdankert, Fmont and 1 other person like this.
  3. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
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    So if it is rolled over like this. That means it got really stinking hot right? They took it back about 5/8". Got any recommendations?
     
  4. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
    I know what you mean. If these guys keep it up I may have to relocate tot he east coast, or at least take a road trip.
     
    A17, Fmont, Yankee Josh and 2 others like this.
  5. Yankee Josh

    Yankee Josh Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 31, 2018
    Thank you! I think I can see a weld on yours... Hard to tell.
    Looking at in good light does the steel appear to you to have been folded together and joined in front of the eye?
    I'm debating just putting mine in vinegar just to find out.
    I recieved this in the mail today. I bought it for 25 bucks +shipping of fleabay. I was really surprised to see it for so little! It's forge welded and it's a Kelly. Has 32 under the poll and a (the) temperers mark in front of the eye. Weighs #3-12.2oz. [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I've been filing it now for about a half hour. I'm almost done. It didn't need much. Thanks for looking!
     
    Miller '72, Dusty One, A17 and 5 others like this.
  6. Brian Rust

    Brian Rust

    744
    Nov 14, 2017
    That’s an awesome haul man!! [email protected] Shoot me an email if you don’t mind, I had a question.
     
    Miller '72, A17, Meek1 and 2 others like this.
  7. jake pogg

    jake pogg Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 20, 2015
    Josh,judging welds by even some very good photos is often prone to error;but just for giggles,let me bring up other causes for just such "cracks".
    Yours,quite possibly,is the effect that smiths of old called "brashness".It is when the force used exceeds the elasticity of steel and the pressure ruins the crystalline lattice,creating often just such ragged-looking tear.
    So possibly when that eye was slitted,or drifted to size consequently,it was done too fast or too forcibly for temperature regime used,tearing vs distorting steel.

    And this case(thank both of you gents for great photos,btw)is possibly the second variant that i wanted to mention:Sometimes when eye is obtained(by whatever means)it's circumference is longer than the finished eye will be in the end.
    Since the axe is normally forged heavily from the sides after the eye is formed,that extra length gets closed up in a cold-shut(it's surfaces are oxidised by then and the forging T is usually well below welding so it does not form a weld).
    So it's that extra little dead-end in the front of eye that is just closed shut forming that fold.

    Again,it's very difficult to judge by photos,plus i'm nowhere near as knowledgeble as i may come off sounding,so please take this with a Very large grain of salt.
     
  8. junkenstien

    junkenstien

    808
    Feb 15, 2017
    Van camp is sweet thats pretty cheap and glad its in your favorite and the greatest pattern.Looks like that hatchet hit a nail or something dont know what you can tell about heat unless its blue.
     
    A17, Meek1, Hairy Clipper and 3 others like this.
  9. Brian Rust

    Brian Rust

    744
    Nov 14, 2017
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    I can always tell if an axe head is true temper Kelly when it has these lines around the base of the eye that intersect. I guess it was part of their process for a certain time period. Super cool axe!!

    Along with the temper marks and even the 3 2 stamp.
     
    A17, Meek1, Hairy Clipper and 2 others like this.
  10. Yankee Josh

    Yankee Josh Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 31, 2018
    I was hoping you'd chime in. I had a suspicion that something else was afoot. Usually it's obvious when a tool was forged in the old way. And when that "crack" in the front of the eye is accompanied by the other tell tale signs it does tell the story.
    But by itself seemed suspicious to me. But at the same time, without knowing how it could result from more modern construction practices, it did seem to point in that direction. I'm glad to know how that seam or crack or whatever I'm supposed to call it can be formed. Either way they're good hatchets! Most likely Kelly's. Thanks for chiming in Jake! Your input is much appreciated.
     
    A17, Trailsawyer, Meek1 and 2 others like this.
  11. Yankee Josh

    Yankee Josh Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 31, 2018
    Thanks! I'm pretty pleased with it. I've been working on it for hours at this point and I just finished. I'll post pics tomorrow.
    I thought those lines were where someone cut the excess wood off the handle after hanging?? I always pictured them being mechanically hung with a big "shelf" under there that needed to be cut off. Interesting.
    And this temperers mark appears to be two T's opposed from each other. It's different than the mark on my stiletto. Neat stuff.
    I thought it was a total steal at $25 + shipping.
     
  12. jake pogg

    jake pogg Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 20, 2015
    No.
    Rolled edge like that only means,in a relative sense,that the tool was tempered so as to bend rather than break under impact of that specific force.
    The key word here is Relative,as the hardness of any edge-tool can only be a balance,a compromise,between several aspects.
    Two major ones are that greater hardness is always coupled with increased brittleness,and lesser hardness with this erectile dysfunction of edge.
    So in this case rolled edge means that the edge of that Hardness+sharpened at that Angle+used in that Material has bent rather than chipped.
    Equation changes with any change in any of it's variables.
    For example if the angle of that grind was increased than maybe when the edge would've encountered say that knot it would have held up,retained it's shape.
    The obverse of this is that then it would take more force on your part to penetrate into material,to start and maintain your cut.
    And so on,with each of these several factors,in degrees.

    However,it is indeed possible to run into a tool-edge that has lost it's temper due to overheating.
    In this case it's hardness would roughly be equal to that of any untempered steel alloy.
    A simple analog test would be to test-scratch it with a sharp corner of a new,un-beat-up file.
    Try scratching the tool,than a piece of some known untempered steel(un-temperable would be most reliable,like a chunk of structural angle/plate/I-beam et c.).
    Do it a few times back and forth with equal force and you'll get a fairly good idea.
    (this is also not Absolute,as most alloys suitable for edge-retention would even in annealed,softest,state be slightly harder than dumb iron,but the feeling of lack of resistance will still be there,you'll just Know).
     
  13. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
    That's a nice clean stamp on there. Good find!
     
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  14. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
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  15. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
    I just learned 2 new things. And that is what I like about this place. Thank you Brian Rust!
     
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  16. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
    I filed on it for a few passes last night. It is pretty soft. I will give it more attention this weekend. It is a very long thin edge. So basically just make it a little more blunt and it won't roll as bad? I'll mess around with it some more. It just seemed excessively thin to me. Thank you for all of the feed back! It is much appreciated!
     
  17. jake pogg

    jake pogg Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 20, 2015
    Excellent,yes,i'd try that first.

    It Is possible(as always),that that edge was attained by using some mechanical means and was overheated in the process.
    In such cases it is usual that only the Very edge suffers,and in subsequent sharpenings you'll start finding progressively more hardness.
    But yes,in general it is advisable to keep the keenness of the cutting edge to a minimum,as of course the very edge will then be stronger.
    Best of luck with it!
     
  18. Meek1

    Meek1

    191
    Aug 11, 2019
    Early bird got the worm today. Nice little Kelly Perfect.
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    And something stamped TG. IDK, it was there. It was red. It looked lonely.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. ithinkverydeeply

    ithinkverydeeply Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 17, 2018
    Super stoked that this axe found me. An old Holzaxt, a monster splitting maul of sorts with a Deutsch-Pennsylvania heritage.
    It’s 9lbs. 12oz. With a 30” handle and a massive poll that is bigger than a beer can. The blacksmiths mark looks to have a Yggdrasil tree from the Norse tradition similar to one of @Agent_H Kirves.

    The guy who owned it thought it might be a type of portable anvil, it is not.
    The protrusion off the bottom of the poll is for using another tool to lever it out of the log if it becomes stuck.
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    Salute!


    Oh. The Yggdrasil Tree on agentH’s
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    That’s a very cool axe! Not sure I’ve seen one before.

    *Holzaxt would be Wood axe I believe.
     
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