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I've seen some stupid-designed serrations lately

Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
1,308
Folks,
what's up with some of the serrations I've been seeing on knives lately?

The best serrations I've ever seen are the "Spyder-edge" type. End of story. All the other approximations just don't have the teeth, don't have the cutting power, of the Spyder-edge.

Most particularly annoying to me are the "reverse-Spyder-edge" serrations -- such as seen on the Mission MPS. Take a look at them and you'll see what I mean. The "teeth" of the serrations are BLUNT -- ROUNDED. Apart from the fact that the way they are ground, the points are on the BLADE side, not the EDGE side, how the hell would you sharpen those serrations? Sure, you could run a Sharpmaker along the wide curves of the big scallops, but what about in the tiny crevices whose points go toward the blade and not the edge? Are you supposed to just forget about them? Are the serrations just friggin' ornamental?

I've also seen some knives (I think I saw a Gerber like this once or twice) whose serrations LOOK like Spyder-edge, but then the teeth were rounded and not pointed. Again, STOOPID! What's the deal?!
 
I agree repeat sales should be their goal, but I guess they figure their customers are stupid enough to keep buying their crap. Just look at the brain washed Spyderco crowd. They're addicted to buying knives that can't be disassembled. Disposable plastic is what pinned blade folders are. And what's the deal with Spyderco using philips head screws along with hex screws? Why not just use all hex screws. It looks cheap! And the FRM is way over priced, I'd rather see them use Krayton handles(like the Gerber Gators)instead of Zytel. Zytel isn't grippy enough.

I like the round style serrations like the kind on the Kershaw Vertigo and Scallion. And the shallow style Benchmade serrations, the deep toothy kind of serrations grab too much. The last thing you want is a knife that grabs. A saw...yes, but for a knife no. I'll take the double edges and the non-grabbing serrations. Try stabbing a garbage bag filled with your choice of contents and put a jacket or even better yet put a parka over it. Stab the holy #%*@* out of it then tell me you want a knife with deep toothy serrations for self defense. It's almost like stabbing something with a barbed whaling spear. That's why most daggers are straight and sharp on both side w/ no serrations. It's designed for fast multiple jabs. Or for a real thrill try stabbing something with a lazer serrated Colt Cobra folder. Now there's a real grabber! The more agressive the serrations ~ the more it's gonna grab.

Serrations are good for the backs and rear section of survival type knives. Full serrations along the whole length of the blade are only good for hawk bills and knives intended for rope cutting or slashing like a Civilian or Matriarch. But they really have little place on self defense/combat tools. They should be used towards the rear section of the blade, the tips need to be plain to be effective in penetration.

I like how there are a few different ways you can sharpen the Kershaw Scallion and Vertigo serrations. UUUUUUUU serrations are the most versitile ~ leaving more than a couple options:
~You can sharpen it on either side, or both.
~You can sharpen between the U's turning them into small acute V shapes at the tips. So what you end up with are small fully sharpened spyderco type serrations, and a unique little design. UUUUUU's above vvvvvvv tips.
~Or you can just sharpen the sh!t out of the serrations until it's a recessed plain blade, giving the center of the blade a fast recurve.
 
I agree repeat sales should be their goal, but I guess they figure their customers are stupid enough to keep buying their crap. Just look at the brain washed Spyderco crowd. They're addicted to buying knives that can't be disassembled. Disposable plastic is what pinned blade folders are. And what's the deal with Spyderco using philips head screws along with hex screws? Why not just use all hex screws. It looks cheap! And the FRM is way over priced, I'd rather see them use Krayton handles(like the Gerber Gators)instead of Zytel. Zytel isn't grippy enough.

Wow, you sound really angry at Spyderco...:p IMHO, Spyderco is one of the best production knife companies out there. They make knives with great ergos and excellent steels for a lower price than many other companies. I have a FRN/PE Delica with VG10 Steel. The knife fits my hand perfectly. I disagree with your statement that the Zytel isn't grippy enough. It feels very grippy to me, especially with the way they put that checker pattern on the handles. I also disagree that the knives are disposable plastic. If you have a problem with the knife, send it to their customer service department. I have heard nothing but excellent reviews about them. Also if you don't like the FRN buy the Stainless Steel and throw on some grip tape. Or better yet try to find their knives in Carbon Fiber or G10. They release them from time to time. As to you feeling FRN is overpriced...I believe the cost of the knife has to do with the quality of the steel. Although I might be wrong on that point. Well it's only 9 in the morning and I'm kinda tired. So later.
-Kevin :yawn:

Edit: About this talk on serrations...Well I don't really like serrations so I'll let someone else answer that.
 
Not to get off of the topic, but for the price, how could you say that Spyderco is overpriced? You can get a Delica for around 40 bucks and mine has lasted me forever, far from disposable. As far as serrations, nothing is worst than the "laser cut" Colt serrations which aren't intended for fibrous materials as stated in the disclaimer. Chris Reeve has some interesting serrations with scallops and blade intermixed. Although a bit ugly, I've found that they are just as affective if not more than Spyderco serrations.
Matt
 
How about those pansy serrations on the new Colt Knives? The one's that are such a joke they can be sharpened with a traditional sharpening stone...

ct49sn.jpg
 
The Cobras aren't "pansy" at all. I had one of the plain versions and I loved it. What I don't like are the stair step vest friendly top sections. I like a thin blade w/no steps because you never know what(or who) you're gonna encounter. The lazer etched serrations are a good concept but they're pretty much completely useless. They dig into what ever you're cutting ~ because they're just GAPS ~ slanted unsharpened GAPS! Sure the tips are sharp but the sides and center aren't sharp. They're good for people who don't know how to sharpen serrations!:p
 
What I don't get is that makers do nice double-bevel grinds on plain edge, then only bevel the serrations on one side. Why?
 
knives intended for rope cutting or slashing like a Civilian or Matriarch

I dont know where you got that idea, the Civilian and Matriarch are among the best self defense knives for people that dont have a large amount of training in that area. They cut, and cut well.
 
I meant slashing as in self defense slashing. Because stabbing is pretty much impossible. Civilian and the Matriach were designed for the sole purpose of self denfense due to the weak tips. But they posess the same hawk bill features as the harpy and Merlin, which makes them ideal for cutting rope and for use by commercial fisherman.
 
I carry a fully-serrated SS Spyderco Police model as my dedicated "defensive/offensive" folder, and I really haven't found a better folder to carry for this purpose (aside from maybe my Cold Steel Vaquero Grande).

I really like the Spyderco serrations, as they seem to work well, and are tougher than most.
 
You're knocking Spyderco as cheap, throw away plactic knives but you're gung ho for the Colt, which is United Cutlery's (or Taylor's?) knock off of the CRKT M-16?:confused: Was your experience with Spyderco one of the first generation BRK Natives? Have you been looking at Spyderco knock offs? The fit and finish on my Rescue is excellent. The FRN is way stronger than my old Gerber EZ-Out and offers at least as much grip. I think you get what you pay for. You could get a Colt folder from Atlanta Cutlery cheaper than a Spyderco from New Graham, but you wont be getting VG-10 and you wont be getting the same customer service. Please correct me if I've overlooked something.

Frank
 
The Cobras were first, CRKT M16 is the knockoff. I still like Spyderco, I own a serrated Merlin, and I'm still brainwashed with the propaganda...how could I not be I hang out in here all the time. The blades are excellent quality, I just have a problem with their handles, choice of screws, and the fact that I can't open them up to clean them. Philips head screws have no place on any knife over $2.99! It's an insult to the customer! I'd just want to see them switch from FRN to Krayton. Krayton is superior to FRN. I don't care how many chubby checkers there are. FRN sucks compared to Krayton. And Polymide is even worse. Give me aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, Krayton, or G-10.

Pinned folders that you can't disect...

pshhhh it's just a bunch of b.s. :rolleyes:
 
Are you sure that the Colt folder is older than the CRKT M-16? The latter is a licenced production version of a Kit Carson custom design and I don't know for how long this has been around.
 
I'm pretty sure the Colt Cobra was first. If the Cobra was first that would explain why the Kit Carson flipper doesn't have a patent.
 
zytif, you should try to get some production date information before posting something like that... the arguement isn't making sense...
 
Hey Zytif, I see that you are a knife designer, could you tell us which knives you have designed and what kind of serration pattern that you use?
 
Well sadly they're none that you would know of right now. Let's just say I'm in the process.:) As far as which kind of serrations I will be using. I plan on using a few different types. Most of what I'll be making are weird hybrid recurves with some small shallow/wide serrations. I'll post pics asap.
 
I've got a truckload of - at least in my opinion - neat drawings in my drawers and I designed a one-of-a-kind custom that most people consider beautifully designed and very utilitarian...does that make me a knife designer? Oh, well...
 
Ok, you got me. I'm just a 5 yr old with a big box of crayons. Like I said...I'll post pics as soon as possible. :footinmou
 
I never implied that. I just think that not the only one around here who occasionally draws a couple of designs that could easily make it into production, if there wasn't such a large number of incredibly well-designed knives available.
 
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