Jigs, Lasers and cutting costs

JTknives

JTknives

Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
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So I know this it not my style but neither is doing this many knives. As most of you know I'm big about hand grinding and what not, BUT. I was a little while ago by a nice lady who does women's defence and pistol training. She has been working on a prototype blade and wants to make a bunch of them. Of corse price is a factor becaus she is including them in a small kit she sells as well as to her students of the classes. She is rather set on her design and likes it as it is. The catch is price, I'm trying to figure out how to cut as much cost as possible and still get her what she wants. The finished knives she will sell for $50-$60 so that means practically I should be in the $25-$30 range I'm guessing. It sounds way low for "Custom" knives but I think it's doable.

This is where the title comes in. I'm planning on building a jig just for these blades. The blades are only getting an edge bevels on one side. Any of you have some ideas for a simple but repeatable jig. I have not messed with jigs much so I'm coming to you guys.

The other thing is profiling. The only way this will work is bulk laser, plasma or water jet cutting. But is one worth the expense over the other in money spent vs time saved. I was thinking laser but I don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning up profiles. I'm guessing this means water jet but I'm not sure. Any ideas?

Next thing is steel. Being a neck knife it will be in contact with skin. My first thought was something like thin AEB-L but I have piles of 15N20 that is much cheeper for me. The hitch is corrosion. I talked to her about it and she likes the idea of powder coating the blades in a color of her choice. I'm thinking it would be done on the second temper at 400° then grind the edge bevel. But I have never powder coated a blade let alone ground a blank that has powder coating. Also is it worth doing this in house or sending it out?

Thanks guys for any tips or advise you can provide. At first I was not really taking her that serious as we have all gotten those emails/messages requesting X amoung of blades for X thing. But she is serious and wants to move ahead. We are talking numbers in the hundreds. At least for cutting then brake then down into smaller double digit batches. It seams like the only way this would be possible is to really get a repeatable system down and out source the bulk work to places set up to do it.

Thanks guys for any advise or tips you can provide. This is completely out of my normal zone of normal.

This is her prototype
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All I can say is that some test pieces we tried with a laser turned out very poorly and/or annoying. Lots of hardened steel near the cut on all steel types, including 1084. Unground blanks have enough mass to cool that thin heat-affected zone fast enough to harden. Waterjet all the way.

Seems like for 100+ pieces, the material you have on hand is irrelevant.

Quite interested to hear how this unfolds! :thumbsup:
 
Hate to break this to you (or rather, her), but SOG already makes that knife for $35. It's called the Snarl, and is a production version of Jason Brous' Silent Soldier, which itself was essentially a rip off of another maker's design, if I recall correctly, but popularized and more widely marketed by Brous. I'd be careful putting my name on it either way.

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Thank you, I let her know. It's not me design, she brought it to me. I know she was having a hard time finding things that fit lady's hands.
 
JTknives said:
Thank you, I let her know. It's not me design, she brought it to me. I know she was having a hard time finding things that fit lady's hands.
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That's how I read your first post. I know there's been a lot of controversy around a number of J. Brous designs in the past (not to mention other SOG models independent of their collabs with Brous). Just didn't want to see you get inadvertently caught up in some potential drama.

I once made a couple of small bottle opener prototypes for a guy who messaged me on facebook, based on a couple of his "original designs" that he sent me. I posted one of them to a group page we were both on, and a massive sh*t storm ensued with a bunch of fanboys raking me over the coals because, in their words, I was blatantly ripping off another maker's well established design (somebody I was only vaguely familiar with).
The funny thing was, it really didn't even look like the design everybody was crying about, and even the maker himself messaged me and told me so. However, upon closer inspection of the OTHER design I was about to make, the functional portion of it was in fact a blatant copy of another established maker. I scrapped the projects and told the guy to take a hike. It was amazing how quickly a number of people blew up and started slandering me as some kind of a crook, within just a few minutes of posting a single picture that "resembled" something else.

Now, I'm not even saying this lady was trying to copy any particular design, but figured I'd give a heads up anyway.
 
I appreciate the heads up. I don't want to copy any one else's work, knowingly or unknowingly. This is also not a job I'm begging for lol. Was mostly trying to help out. maybe we can work over "her" design and make it more unique. She did show interest in my Q3 design.
 
Any "Trademark" that is incorporated into a design would be an issue other than that I think as a Craftsman/Artist you can design something similar without infringing on the original. As knife makers we copy every sharp point and edge that's ever been produced since the Dawn of Man.
Since she is providing the "Proto" design she must be aware of the Original I can't believe it came to her in a Dream?! Any of the stuff going on between the finger holes would be suspect for Trademark design...Put a Fuller in the blade that would be different...also with a design to fit women's hands I would proto 3 sizes and have women test the finger holes...women can(just sayin')be PICKY about how it fits their hands.

On manufacturing Waterjet all the way...have the plate drop shipped to WJ company have a CAD drawing ready to go so they can nest the design and Max out number of pieces per sheet I have that done on my Slipjoints what a Time and Material saver on similar items!!!

Best of Luck Hope it works out!!

Mike
 
Here is the Hideaway knife
utilityhak2.jpg
 
This is my vallor that I was making years and years ago. I'm thinking about making them agian but loosing the little drop leg and just keeping the holes.
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What about getting them cast to shape in stainless or titanium? It would raise the materials cost, but would reduce the finishing labor. If it is primarily a SD tool, not intended for much cutting, then titanium with a carbidized edge should hold up OK. And think of the "bling factor" anodizing could add.
 
Even if you do find a suitable design, I don't see how you could make one for $25 - $30.

You will lose money at that rate.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
It was originated by Hideaway years before Brous.

Chuck
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If I'm not mistaken, the Silent Soldier (now SOG snitch) was a copy of another maker on the USN who went by the handle brownmajic. His model was called the snitch, mini-snitch, or some variation of that, though I can't currently find a picture. I don't think they were too prolific at the time that Brous came out withe SS knife.
 
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