Just what are those speed skating blades made from?

The blades in hockey skates are their own separate thing and I'm not ready to dive into that world yet.
 
Larrin said:
I wonder if the skate blades really need all the wear resistance provided by K390. If we are sticking with Bohler, something like K490 or K890 could give a big boost in toughness and ease of shapening. And edge stability depending on how thin they take those edges. And those steels are not slouches when it comes to wear resistance.
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Are K490 and K890 close in wear resistance?
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How would K490 compare to Va4E ?
 
Neo said:
How would K490 compare to Va4E ?
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Those two steels are in the same general category: they both have 1.4C and 3.7V, with differences in the Mo, W, and Cr contents. The K490 also has a niobium addition. Despite Bohler and Uddeholm being owned by the same parent company they operate relatively independently; they generally don't compare their steels to one another. Despite some dubious language about testing direction in the datasheets, I believe both are transverse unnotched izod tests. In the datasheets K490 is listed as having 80J at 62 Rc (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/media/K490DE.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra shows about 58J (https://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_Uddeholm_vanadis_4_extra_english.pdf). However, in the patents K490 shows about 78J for 64 Rc and 87J for 58.5 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20100233500.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra got 102J for 60 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7297177.pdf) So again I think the best we can say is that they are in the same general category. I'm not sure why the patent shows better toughness than the datasheet does for Vanadis 4 Extra. The datasheet for Vanadis 4 Extra clearly indicates they are transverse tests, but the patent just says "LT2" direction which I can't find a reference to anywhere else. Maybe the patent used a longitudinal direction test? I'm getting too far in the weeds now.
 
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I'm not a skater so it's all a mystery to me. I had read that skates are hollow ground .Not like a knife but like the drawing in the article so you are skating on two edges .
There are comments about directionality in steels in the forum.The Crucible info states that much of the improvement in toughness in CPM steels is in the transverse direction .Most, though not all steels show directional properties upon rolling. This is dealt with by 'cross rolling' and Matt's report on his trip to NSM was that the Crucible CPMs are cross rolled .The difference in properties vs rolling direction can be significant ! The steel strip is cut into squares and each time you roll it you turn it 90*. Certainly it would show upon skate blades. I think in Viking days they used a piece of bone !!
 
Larrin said:
Those two steels are in the same general category: they both have 1.4C and 3.7V, with differences in the Mo, W, and Cr contents. The K490 also has a niobium addition. Despite Bohler and Uddeholm being owned by the same parent company they operate relatively independently; they generally don't compare their steels to one another. Despite some dubious language about testing direction in the datasheets, I believe both are transverse unnotched izod tests. In the datasheets K490 is listed as having 80J at 62 Rc (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/media/K490DE.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra shows about 58J (https://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_Uddeholm_vanadis_4_extra_english.pdf). However, in the patents K490 shows about 78J for 64 Rc and 87J for 58.5 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20100233500.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra got 102J for 60 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7297177.pdf) So again I think the best we can say is that they are in the same general category. I'm not sure why the patent shows better toughness than the datasheet does for Vanadis 4 Extra. The datasheet for Vanadis 4 Extra clearly indicates they are transverse tests, but the patent just says "LT2" direction which I can't find a reference to anywhere else. Maybe the patent used a longitudinal direction test? I'm getting too far in the weeds now.
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The scientific mind at work....
 
erik markman said:
Speedskates have a square edge. Hockey and figureskates are hllowground and thicker.
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And they for sure get sharpened differently. Way back decades ago I used to be in a store that did hockey gear in the winter and you'd spend your Saturday in the booth sharpening skates. It was very easy to do, the skate clamps in a guide that you hold against the grinder and make as many passes as needed using the right touch. These were mostly kid's hockey skates so they didn't need sharpening because of skating; they were dull because the kids would wear them on hard floors. You'd see maybe one set of figure skates a month and they were a nightmare since those parents were much worse than the hockey parents for complaining about how little Jennifer didn't get a trophy because her skates were badly sharpened. They were followed by the parents of goalies, then the regular players. We never once saw a set of speed skates despite having a fairly established program in the city to the point of locals medaling at the Olympics.
 
Larrin said:
Those two steels are in the same general category: they both have 1.4C and 3.7V, with differences in the Mo, W, and Cr contents. The K490 also has a niobium addition. Despite Bohler and Uddeholm being owned by the same parent company they operate relatively independently; they generally don't compare their steels to one another. Despite some dubious language about testing direction in the datasheets, I believe both are transverse unnotched izod tests. In the datasheets K490 is listed as having 80J at 62 Rc (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/media/K490DE.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra shows about 58J (https://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_Uddeholm_vanadis_4_extra_english.pdf). However, in the patents K490 shows about 78J for 64 Rc and 87J for 58.5 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20100233500.pdf) while Vanadis 4 Extra got 102J for 60 Rc (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7297177.pdf) So again I think the best we can say is that they are in the same general category. I'm not sure why the patent shows better toughness than the datasheet does for Vanadis 4 Extra. The datasheet for Vanadis 4 Extra clearly indicates they are transverse tests, but the patent just says "LT2" direction which I can't find a reference to anywhere else. Maybe the patent used a longitudinal direction test? I'm getting too far in the weeds now.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much.
The slightly higher amount of Cr in K490 might result in slightly less toughness.
Nb and W in K490 should increase the amount of carbides in comparison with Va4E and increase the wear resistance?
Higher carbides amount also decreases toughness?
I would love to try this steel.
 
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Neo said:
Thank you very much.
The slightly higher amount of Cr in K490 might result in slightly less toughness.
Nb and W in K490 should increase the amount of carbides in comparison with Va4E and increase the wear resistance?
Higher carbides amount also decreases toughness?
I would love to try this steel.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if the Cr will make a difference, it may or may not. The niobium addition to the K490 was made for the purpose of refining the overall carbide structure to improve toughness rather than to add wear resistance but it is possible there is a small increase.
 
Larrin said:
It highlights the problems with trying to get good data from datasheets (sales) and patents (lawyers).
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I agree. I spend a lot of time weeding through crap to get the real information in the field of mental health.
 
erik markman said:
Skates are only sharpened by a machine when new to give them a slight curve. Maintenence sharpening is done by hand with (diamond)stones.
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That’s not true. I see at alot of skating rinks up here “automatic skate sharpening machines” you just load your skates in and put in money and it sharpens them for you.

However it looks like they mostly overheat the skates judging by the way they work and the sparks they throw.


Phixt said:
Only broken minds.

I was thinking, When were skis and snowboards ever made of steel?

ETA: Lapedog Lapedog
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Skis and snow boards have a metal edge around the outside edge of them. The board itself is not made of steel.

Seen here.
LP90-edges02.jpg

Here is one coming out of the ski. (It needs to be repaired)
img_0610.jpg



olymon said:
Doubt they effect the heat treat at all. Do you effect the heat treat when you grind a heat treated blade? If it sat in one spot for a long time maybe, but most sharpeners just skim the edge til it's sharp. Less heavy work then doing a blade.
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Knives get overheated all the time when sharpened with powered systems. There are plenty of instances of knives with edges that have been compromised by overheating while sharpening. Once you sharpen them a few times and reach the unaffected steel underneath the knife takes a better longer lasting edge.
 
In Holland speedskates are manually sharpened. Like I said the only time the are put in a machine is when they come from the factory and they do not have the neccesary curve in them.
And we kick all the asses in speedskating....
 
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