Ka Bar " Next gen fighter "

C

cabala

Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
316
Probably best utility knife in the World. 440 A steel is great for sharpening in a field, balance is perfect, grip is almost excellent ( pommel can be like original ), blade like pukko, weight is in a handle, size is real good. Sheath need to be custom for War. Different secure of blade, without a sound when you open sheath.
 
cabala said:
Probably best utility knife in the World. 440 A steel is great for sharpening in a field, balance is perfect, grip is almost excellent ( pommel can be like original ), blade like pukko, weight is in a handle, size is real good. Sheath need to be custom for War. Different secure of blade, without a sound when you open sheath.
Click to expand...

Why do they call this knife "NEXT GEN" and use 440A steel.

It's like they use the absolute opposite term to describe their product.
 
440A is decent but when comes down to it, 440C is a lot better. I still don't understand why ka-bar would use it though.
 
topspeclt said:
Why do they call this knife "NEXT GEN" and use 440A steel.

It's like they use the absolute opposite term to describe their product.
Click to expand...

The standard for Ka-Bars of this style is 1095 Cro-Van. Next Gen would be indicative of a move to stainless.
OmegaJuicebox said:
440A is decent but when comes down to it, 440C is a lot better. I still don't understand why ka-bar would use it though.
Click to expand...

Perhaps for the same reason that Randall used 440B on large blades: to get improved toughness.


If you are going to be an environment in which stainless is a requirement, 440A is a reasonable choice for a lower end large knife that needs a tougher alloy because of its expected usage. In the desert Southwest where I camp, I'd be happy with 1095 Cro-van (and probably a different design). But if I were camping in marshy country. was not going to be able to care for my knife, and needed a reasonably tough, reasonably priced stainless steel that would still hold an edge, I might go for a Next Gen. Might be good for a BOB where it may sit unattended for years, as well.
 
knarfeng said:
The standard for Ka-Bars of this style is 1095 Cro-Van. Next Gen would be indicative of a move to stainless.


Perhaps for the same reason that Randall used 440B on large blades: to get improved toughness.


If you are going to be an environment in which stainless is a requirement, 440A is a reasonable choice for a lower end large knife that needs a tougher alloy because of its expected usage. In the desert Southwest where I camp, I'd be happy with 1095 Cro-van (and probably a different design). But if I were camping in marshy country. was not going to be able to care for my knife, and needed a reasonably tough, reasonably priced stainless steel that would still hold an edge, I might go for a Next Gen. Might be good for a BOB where it may sit unattended for years, as well.
Click to expand...

Not convinced,

440C seems to be the standard now for low-end stainless fixed blades. You can see how cheap they are sold by Boker et al. (since they are made in china and taiwan).

For "Next-gen" in the context of their own products they should have used 440c stainless. I just can't see a reason why anyone would buy a 440A when they can pick up 440C for other well established manufacturers.

If I'm going for a Kabar i'd always go for a classic 1095. Even in wet conditions you are not going to have a problem unless the knife is constantly wet for several days. I doubt how that situation could arise very often.
 
Last edited:
The KaBar Next Gen was my "first" quality fixed blade when it first released. It looked cool, but I remember it being handle heavy which I didn't like. It was one of the first factory knives to come with a kydex sheath from BladeTech - I was annoyed that the sheath made so much sound when it got touched by branches etc

Cool design, but my tastes have moved on since then :)
 
OmegaJuicebox said:
440A is decent but when comes down to it, 440C is a lot better. I still don't understand why ka-bar would use it though.
Click to expand...

Design team choose Sandvic 12C27 and first it was produced with this Swedish steel, bead blasted. I manage to got one of this. Then they switch to 440A with gray epoxy, which make many member of initial design team unhappy.

Here is book on how Next Generation was created:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-7405470-1842203?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Design team choose Sandvic 12C27 and first it was produced with this Swedish steel, bead blasted. I manage to got one of this. Then they switch to 440A with gray epoxy, which make many member of initial design team unhappy.

Here is book on how Next Generation was created:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-7405470-1842203?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

WOW!

Thanks for the link Vassili.

It seems the 'next-gen' issue is more complicated that we thought...

can you post a pic of the sandvik Kab-bar?

Cheers.
 
topspeclt said:
WOW!

Thanks for the link Vassili.

It seems the 'next-gen' issue is more complicated that we thought...

can you post a pic of the sandvik Kab-bar?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Well, it was full scale project where many experts in knifemaking and combat were involved. It was once new KaBar company emerged and they like to make statement, make this modern truly Next Generation Kabar - modern version of WWII legend.

They made it and it was quite a knife. Then they starts this modifications and I am not sure is it now really step forward from old legend. At least this is not what that design team came up initially.

kabar1221-08.jpg


kabar1221-11.jpg


Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Well, it was full scale project where many experts in knifemaking and combat were involved. It was once new KaBar company emerged and they like to make statement, make this modern truly Next Generation Kabar - modern version of WWII legend.

They made it and it was quite a knife. Then they starts this modifications and I am not sure is it now really step forward from old legend. At least this is not what that design team came up initially.

kabar1221-08.jpg


kabar1221-11.jpg


Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for those pics Vassili. Very beautiful knife. What is the thickness of the blade? Is it the same as the others?

I bought a Kabar 1271 instead of D2 mainly because I did not like the butt (Next-Gen and D2). It just wasn't comfortable to hold and work with. It's also more likely to break off.

What do you think of their decision to use 440A?
 
topspeclt said:
Many thanks for those pics Vassili. Very beautiful knife. What is the thickness of the blade? Is it the same as the others?

I bought a Kabar 1271 instead of D2 mainly because I did not like the butt (Next-Gen and D2). It just wasn't comfortable to hold and work with. It's also more likely to break off.

What do you think of their decision to use 440A?
Click to expand...

thickness - 5/32" same as for 1217.

I did not really tested it and I found that "commonly accepted knowledge" in many cases is wrong. So only I remember that one of designers was unhappy with this move. I think that gray epoxy is step down, I do not see any reason to make it on stainless blade except save on bead blasting or polishing.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
topspeclt said:
Not convinced,

440C seems to be the standard now for low-end stainless fixed blades. You can see how cheap they are sold by Boker et al. (since they are made in china and taiwan).

For "Next-gen" in the context of their own products they should have used 440c stainless. I just can't see a reason why anyone would buy a 440A when they can pick up 440C for other well established manufacturers.

If I'm going for a Kabar i'd always go for a classic 1095. Even in wet conditions you are not going to have a problem unless the knife is constantly wet for several days. I doubt how that situation could arise very often.
Click to expand...

440C is not the standard for low end knives.

First, the Chinese knives don't actually use 440C. They use a Chinese alloy that is not held to the same tolerances as 440C. It's performance is variable. Some lots turn out to have the same Carbon content as 440C, other lots have the carbon content of 440B or below. Actual 440C is more expensive and the performance is more uniform.

Second, while 440C is a good choice for cutting or slicing, it is not a good choice for chopping or rough work compared to 440A because 440C is not as tough as 440A.

As I mentioned above, the classic Ka-Bar uses 1095 Cro-Van, an alloy steel, not 1095 carbon steel. But, I also would rather have a knife of this style for this usage in 1095 Cro-Van. However, if someone really want a large tough stainless knife in that price range, 440A is a reasonable choice.
 
knarfeng said:
440C is not the standard for low end knives.

First, the Chinese knives don't actually use 440C. They use a Chinese alloy that is not held to the same tolerances as 440C. It's performance is variable. Some lots turn out to have the same Carbon content as 440C, other lots have the carbon content of 440B or below. Actual 440C is more expensive and the performance is more uniform.
Click to expand...

What?

Even for well-established brands like Boker? They do a lot of fixed blades in 440C MADE IN CHINA.

You telling me that it might be a dud (in terms of not as advertised)?
 
nozh2002 said:
thickness - 5/32" same as for 1217.

I did not really tested it and I found that "commonly accepted knowledge" in many cases is wrong. So only I remember that one of designers was unhappy with this move. I think that gray epoxy is step down, I do not see any reason to make it on stainless blade except save on bead blasting or polishing.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

On top of their decision to use 440A they use EPOXY?! My Black Kabar 1271 has epoxy paint.

Man, they should just bead-blast it.

Seems a little stingy. Given there are many other knives that are bead blasted and better made out there at the same price point.

Hmm....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top