karambit an old weapon ?

L

luku

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I want to discuss a little be about the origin of the Karambit or Kerambit.
Some said it originate from Philippines but this is not true no one known it in Philippine.
Some said he came from Malaysia but I never see any Karambit their
Some said he came from Indonesia but I also never see any Karambit their.
Some said it is centuries old warrior weapon but I never saw any Karambit in any museum I visit. Also, I never found any reference of Karambit in an old book.

I'm not here to discuss merit's of Karambit but I never found any proof of the Karambit origin.
Did you known some museums or private collection who contain Karambit.
Did you known some book or documents (older than the last 30 years) who mention Karambit ?
 
Luku,

I know of no book older than 30 years that mentions the kerambit. What I had heard was that it was of Arabian origin, but I cannot substantiate even that.

Wherever it came from, it's a nice, little fixed blade.
 
No it is not otherwise if you want you can call Karambit any knife with a curved blade it is up to you. The people who promote Karambit said this is an centuries old knife and I try to establish this point because until now I don't see any fact who prove it.
 
I haven't seen earlier references than Donn Draeger's book, but I appreciate that you don't want to take it on authority that the kerambit existed a long time ago. It may well be a recent invention.
 
Go out to www.karambit.com and check out Steve Taranis discussion on this weapon.

He has the answers you are looking for I believe. Here is an excrpt from his website:

The Karambit is also referred to as the Kuku Bima (literally “the claw of Bima”). Pre-12th century influence as a result of Hindus settling in Indonesian archipelago, brought the Mahabharata (“great epic of the Bharata Dynasty”) and the Ramayana, (two major epics of India, valued for both high literary merit and religious inspiration), to Java. Contained within the Mahabharata is the Bagavadgita (“the Lord’s song”) which is the single most important religious text of Hinduism. Bima is one of the most revered characters from the

Brownie
 
Yes I known this but like I said I never saw any Karambit in any museum and in any collection. I own some old books (100 years old) concerning the world cutlery and I never read any reference of the Karambit. For this I'm looking for references. It is strange to me than nobody never speak about a knife who was 800 years old.
 
That's a good point. Indonesia and Malaysia have long had systems of writing from Chinese, Indian, and West Asian cultures and may well have had their own in addition. The American Bowie knife isn't 800 years old and yet there's tons of literature concerning it. The kerambit should have a lot more information concerning its existence from over the centuries.
 
I'll wager a bet that the Kerambit, in it's modern usage as a SD edged weapon, is a recent discovery. I too have had a diffiult time finding old Kerambits that have the finger holes prior to the 20th Century. But, that should not discount the earlier heritage of the blade in it's use as a non-descript utility knife.
 
It may have gone under another name like the Kuku Bima or any other number of names before getting to the karambit title in days of old.

Tarani had many ancient karambits displayed in his first of three video series I'm studying at this time.

The tool is certainly an old design and some of his shown ancients are really slick looking [ as in real nasty ].

Brownie
 
The only know java weapons are: Keris, Tumbak, Patrem, Bliring, Golok, Pedang.

During the last 30 years many new martial arts like the Viet Vo Dao and ethnographic weapons & knives like some corsican knives show up .
The problem it is when you start to look closelly after those new things you will find that most of them are "fake".
The strange things is that except for Tarani nobody know about old Karambit.
Also, in the april 2003 issue of Blade I read: "Growing up in Malaysia, Liong Mah, saw many people carry the small claw-like knives callet Karambit in their sarong....". I whent many time in Malaysia and I never saw any Karambit knive usually villagers use only Golok.
When I visit a country I try to buy as many different knives as I can. I never saw a Karambit.

In Tarani web page you can read: "The Karambit (pronounced kah-rahm-bit) is a remarkable utility knife that was born in the Indonesian archipelago with roots in Malaysia and the Philippines. Akin to the Swiss Army knife of today, this was the “pocket knife” of ancient villagers. This extraordinary little personal tool was first documented to be carried around the early 11th century AD and to this very day can be seen in various remote locations throughout the Indonesian islands, parts of Malaysia and the Southern Philippine islands."
There is no Karambit in the Philippines. Also he said that: "this was the “pocket knife” of ancient villagers" and in the history of Karambit he said this was a war weapons.

According of my personal experience I have a big doubt about the Karambit but I can be wrong (anybody can make mistakes) for this I'm asking info from you.
 
LUKU,
Please ck. with gentleman on forums by name of golok,I had kerambit ? he has two in his collection(he is from Malay.),he told me people used to carry them often ,for reg. use & also SD! Stated they were now against the law & if you were caught carrying one, you would go straight to jail!!
Jim
 
It is strange that you don’t see many old kerambits. Antiques do show up every now and then, but I don’t think I’ve seen an example more than about a hundred years old.

The definition of “kerambit” that most people use seems to be pretty general; there’s a lot of variation in the knives that get called a “kerambit” (or a similar name). The knife might have a blade up to 9 inches long, or as short as 1 inch. It could be very curved, or hardly curved at all. It also may or may not have a hole in the handle.

Here’s an interesting thread (with some nice pics) about kerambits from the Ethnographic Edged Weapons Forum.

It looks like most references give Sumatra as the origin of the kerambit design. Here’s a cool antique kerambit that was sold by Oriental-Arms. They don’t say where it’s from, but it appears to be Sumatran to me.
 
The sheath of the knives displayed is "classical" malaysian knives sheaths. I got Golok and others piece with similar "look". The last Karambit on the forum (with the hole in the handle) look like "a tourist piece".
But now what we have is different knife style all called Karambit and all pieces are not older than 100 years ago.
 
There are many variations on a theme.

Even the old world ones had different blade shapes and lengths.

Brownie
 
Karambit is actually ancient indonesian farming and utility blade
Like Golok and Parangs ,all the Blade in indonesia origin in ancient Nusantara (consist of the Modern South East Asia,capital in Majapahit)
it took inspiration of ancient arabic blade (indonesia is a Hub for central trade in the early age of nusantara )
Whom arabic trader brought to Indonesia ,i forgot the Blade name ,suprisingly egyptian origin blade,they combine it with the ritual sundaneese tiger blade
And therefore be Karambit

Anyway all the South East Asian blade originate in Majapahit ,kediri and sriwijaya part of ancient indonesia
They are quite a Blade contributor
 
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