Karambit hole is small!

[fulloflead]

I just got my first Karamit. It's a regular one with a satin blade. It's a beautifully designed knife and the sharpest chisel edged knife I've ever owned (and that's a lot). Fit and finish are perfect in every way. The lock is perfect with a ton of room for wear. Even the clip doesn't have any scuff marks on it. I love this thing, but...

boy is the hole in the handle SMALL!

What the heck were they thinking? This sucker needs opened up 1/8" on all sides!

My fingers aren't THAT chubby!

Do you guys know anyone who specializes in opening up this hole a bit? I could do it with a Dremil tool, but it wouldn't be pretty.

I need more room!

I can get my fingers in there, but I sure can't get any finger in there FAST!

Help me out? Am I missing something? Is there a reason they designed it with such a small handle hole? I can't imagine E. Emerson would make such a mistake and leave out people with slightly-chubby fingers!

P.S. I tried repeatedly to take a picture of my purple middle finger, but I couldn't hold the camera steady enough with my left hand for a night shot. The flash washed out the purple.


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[SIFU1A]

they are kinda small, i had a tarani k'bit which was a lot bigger but i couldnt stand the big ring sticking up outta my pocket though, just looked "funky" imho &, everybody wanted to know what the deal was with it too, "why the big ring on that knife" but i do suppose a bigger ring is better for a lotta k'bit manipulations.

 

[KaliGman]

I have found karambits to be probably the single most "user specific" class of knife in regard to "what feels right." I have trained and taught karambit techniques way before the "karambit fad" hit, and have trained and taught with other knife types. I have found, over the course of a few decades of training, that most people can and will work with knives that are "not quite" their preference in balance, etc., and can work with them quite well. Most karambit users, however, are very particular about the balance, diameter of the retention ring, curvature of the blade, etc., and will generally find one "style" that they like and can perform well with, and others that they really don't like and feel "funny" when using.

The Emerson is my favorite folding karambit. The ring size is perfect for me. Mr. Emerson advocates extensions and some spinning work (if you look at his videos) and Mr. Tarani does not advocate spinning at all. Having been trained in a style of fighting that coincides more closely with Mr. Emerson's views, it is no wonder that I prefer the Emerson. The Tarani designs have retention rings with a larger diameter. These are fine if your finger fills the ring or you don't spin. If you spin and your finger does not "fill the void" in the retention ring, the knife can oscillate a bit on an extension or spin, and you will eventually find the point of the blade stuck in your flesh (if you practice enough). Having the finger "loose" in the ring also makes a quick extension and draw cut a bit less precise and secure--the blade can waver quite a bit while you are cutting.

In any case, the discontinued Spyderco Karambit (you can find them for sale from time to time), the 511s and any number of custom folders can be found (or ordered in the case of the customs) with larger diameter retention rings.

As for me--I have some Spyderco karambits and use them quite a bit (I prefer the Spyderco's blade curvature but not its ring diameter), but I do prefer the Emerson karambit folder and the Emerson karambit fixed blades. I am currently working with a maker who asked my advice on a karambit design and the retention ring diameter will pretty closely match the Emerson. The custom I designed and have on order from James Coogler (as soon as he finally gets his shop back in order) will also mirror the Emerson ring dimensions.

 

[fulloflead]

If you spin and your finger does not "fill the void" in the retention ring, the knife can oscillate a bit on an extension or spin, and you will eventually find the point of the blade stuck in your flesh (if you practice enough). Having the finger "loose" in the ring also makes a quick extension and draw cut a bit less precise and secure--the blade can waver quite a bit while you are cutting.

This is interesting and close enough to an answer for me. I'll have to consider these points as I practice with mine a bit and see if I change my mind about the size of the hole.:thumbup:

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[KaliGman]

This is interesting and close enough to an answer for me. I'll have to consider these points as I practice with mine a bit and see if I change my mind about the size of the hole.:thumbup:

.

Practice hard and you may just fall in love with that Emerson. I would suggest an Emerson Combat Karambit trainer when you get into spins, extension, or even a lot of "checking hands" while cutting. If you decide against the trainer, tape the edge and point with electrical tape prior to getting too fancy, or your blood probably will be on that karambit's blade before you are done. In fixed blade karambit trainers, I use Keen Edge Knives trainers, and only recommend and use the Emerson when it comes to folding trainers.

If you are new to the karambit, maybe this will help you out:

http://www.albokalisilat.org/beginner.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/intermediate.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/advanced.html

There are more videos here (if you aren't bored by now):

http://www.albokalisilat.org/partner.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/more_karambit.html

Lastly, here is a link to a PDF version of an article that appeared in the Russian knife magazine, Prorez. If you download the article, you'll see that, in the photo where I am in a Silat seated posture (and wearing all blue), I have a satin finish and a black finish Emerson fixed blade karambit, one in each hand (with apologies to the late science fiction and fantasy novelist David Gemmell, I call them "The Karambits of Night and Day.").

http://www.albokalisilat.org/magazine.html

 

[stabman]

Mr. Tarani does not advocate spinning at all.

After what happened last year, my wrist agrees with Mr. Tarani.
No more spinning for me!
I prefer the larger hole, just one reason I got the Super Karambit.

 

[fulloflead]

KaliGman,

Thanks for the links!

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[Haze]

You can make the finger hole bigger, I did it on an EKI not too long ago, but you cant make it much bigger or you start to make the ring a bit to thin.

I find the EKIs about right for me, they dont leave any room round my finger but it isnt too tight either.
Having trained with kerambits for many years now I have always been told that spinning the kerambit has no practical use other than looking cool.
You should be able to "loose" the kerambit for extended reach during locks or holds and flip it back but thats it.

 

[KaliGman]

...
Having trained with kerambits for many years now I have always been told that spinning the kerambit has no practical use other than looking cool.
You should be able to "loose" the kerambit for extended reach during locks or holds and flip it back but thats it...

The spin has many other uses than "looking cool." Some styles train for spins, and some do not. Some styles do not advocate use of the thrust with a karambit, and some styles use karambits that are not what most on this forum would consider a "karambit" at all. Training methods, concepts, and techniques vary from art to art and teacher to teacher. Cuts can be performed with the spin (and yes I have done them on various test media with live blades). The rotation of the knife develops some speed to add power to certain cuts. Of course, when used in this manner, the karambit becomes similar to a "flail" or flexible weapon, in that you have to watch for a possible "rebound" from the target. In general, extensions and draw cuts are preferred to spins, but spins can have their uses as well. Spins are particularly useful when using a training drone or one of the impact karambits as an impact tool or when using a live blade in a "flat double cut spin" at the eye level of the opponent. The later usually causes a flinch or break in posture rather than a "hit" from the cut, but often allows for a follow up cut in a conventional reverse grip prior to the opponent recovering his posture, or at least this has been the case in multiple sparring sessions against various opponents over the years. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Dr Heelhook]

I had the same problem. Everything is PERFECT, but the hole is too small. Went and sold mine.

 

[Haze]

The spin has many other uses than "looking cool." Some styles train for spins, and some do not. Some styles do not advocate use of the thrust with a karambit, and some styles use karambits that are not what most on this forum would consider a "karambit" at all. Training methods, concepts, and techniques vary from art to art and teacher to teacher. Cuts can be performed with the spin (and yes I have done them on various test media with live blades). The rotation of the knife develops some speed to add power to certain cuts. Of course, when used in this manner, the karambit becomes similar to a "flail" or flexible weapon, in that you have to watch for a possible "rebound" from the target. In general, extensions and draw cuts are preferred to spins, but spins can have their uses as well. Spins are particularly useful when using a training drone or one of the impact karambits as an impact tool or when using a live blade in a "flat double cut spin" at the eye level of the opponent. The later usually causes a flinch or break in posture rather than a "hit" from the cut, but often allows for a follow up cut in a conventional reverse grip prior to the opponent recovering his posture, or at least this has been the case in multiple sparring sessions against various opponents over the years. Your mileage may vary.

When I first got into kerambits I was right into spinning them (as we all are I think ) I was looking at these flashy cool moves and thought they were potentially quite usefull.
Having already trained for a few years in combat arts before finding the kerambit I was used to full speed/contact sparing empty handed and with regular knives.
I found over time that during sparing the spinning attacks were just not that effective and in many casses created an unnecessary weakness.

Now I have been training with them for a good while and with a couple of different teachers I still feel the same way, probably even more so infact.
Everyone has their own different style and what works for some or what some see as usefull others dont, even under the same system.
That dosnt mean any one style is better than an other, just different :thumbup:

 

[SIFU1A]

imho while the fancy moves look cool they have no place in the real world.

 

[stonyman]

Okay, I have to say, the Emerson karambit is too small for my fingers. I favor the larger hole karambits. I like the Spyderco model a lot. I was overwhelmed with joy when Emerson came out with the Super sized one. I look forward to getting one soon. This boils down to preference. I have done a lot of training with Mr. Tarani and will be again in August.

Being able to go from the retracted position to extended is always misunderstood! It is only done for advantageous reasons in a combat situation. I think the idea of twirling any knife around in a fight is:barf:! Skilled guys make the tool work to their favor. KaliG is far from the norm. Take care all and God Bless.

 

[DD1]

I have found karambits to be probably the single most "user specific" class of knife in regard to "what feels right." I have trained and taught karambit techniques way before the "karambit fad" hit, and have trained and taught with other knife types. I have found, over the course of a few decades of training, that most people can and will work with knives that are "not quite" their preference in balance, etc., and can work with them quite well. Most karambit users, however, are very particular about the balance, diameter of the retention ring, curvature of the blade, etc., and will generally find one "style" that they like and can perform well with, and others that they really don't like and feel "funny" when using.

The Emerson is my favorite folding karambit. The ring size is perfect for me. Mr. Emerson advocates extensions and some spinning work (if you look at his videos) and Mr. Tarani does not advocate spinning at all. Having been trained in a style of fighting that coincides more closely with Mr. Emerson's views, it is no wonder that I prefer the Emerson. The Tarani designs have retention rings with a larger diameter. These are fine if your finger fills the ring or you don't spin. If you spin and your finger does not "fill the void" in the retention ring, the knife can oscillate a bit on an extension or spin, and you will eventually find the point of the blade stuck in your flesh (if you practice enough). Having the finger "loose" in the ring also makes a quick extension and draw cut a bit less precise and secure--the blade can waver quite a bit while you are cutting.

In any case, the discontinued Spyderco Karambit (you can find them for sale from time to time), the 511s and any number of custom folders can be found (or ordered in the case of the customs) with larger diameter retention rings.

As for me--I have some Spyderco karambits and use them quite a bit (I prefer the Spyderco's blade curvature but not its ring diameter), but I do prefer the Emerson karambit folder and the Emerson karambit fixed blades. I am currently working with a maker who asked my advice on a karambit design and the retention ring diameter will pretty closely match the Emerson. The custom I designed and have on order from James Coogler (as soon as he finally gets his shop back in order) will also mirror the Emerson ring dimensions.

You mention getting it stuck in your flesh, I'll give an example..LOL
did this when I first started training Karambit.

 

[fulloflead]

You mention getting it stuck in your flesh, I'll give an example..LOL
did this when I first started training Karambit.

Yeah, you guys are all into being INTO the Karambit and I just like it because it's the fastest knife I own. I don't plan on doing anything that would give me an injury like THIS at all! I just want to have the option to "draw and rip" should I get attacked coming out of a Metro Station in DC! I can already draw and rip in about a half-second. But the knife feels really unstable on the outside of my middle or first finger when I do. I'd rather be able to sink my finger a little bit deeper into that hole upon the draw than I do so it's stable for quick follow up shots.

I don't EVER want a wrist injury like THIS!

.

 

[DD1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuJan4rK6nc

 

[Bimmer1]

Okay, I have to say, the Emerson karambit is too small for my fingers. I favor the larger hole karambits. I like the Spyderco model a lot. I was overwhelmed with joy when Emerson came out with the Super sized one. I look forward to getting one soon. This boils down to preference. I have done a lot of training with Mr. Tarani and will be again in August.

Being able to go from the retracted position to extended is always misunderstood! It is only done for advantageous reasons in a combat situation. I think the idea of twirling any knife around in a fight is:barf:! Skilled guys make the tool work to their favor. KaliG is far from the norm. Take care all and God Bless.

I believe the ring inner diameter on the Super Karambit is the same size as the combat karambit.