Katana markings

A

Alex Madrigal

Joined
Nov 25, 2023
Messages
1
I acquired a katana sword it has japanese markings on one side ten characters and on the other side it has 045 number stamped does this number signify production number or someone's collection Identifying number
 
Alex Madrigal said:
I acquired a katana sword it has japanese markings on one side ten characters and on the other side it has 045 number stamped does this number signify production number or someone's collection Identifying number
Click to expand...
If you would like opinions you are going to have to post pictures, the description so far is way to generic for anyone to tell you much of anything.
 
Most likely a production line. Traditional Japanese swordsmiths never numbered their work. They always signed it with their name and provence. Numbers were imported from the west.

Stamping numbers on the tang of a sword would only be in production. No collector in their right mind would permanently mark a blade for catalogue purposes. It devalues the blade in Japanese standards.

I'm a sword polisher and have spent time researching and discussing with industry leaders like the late Gus Wolmar.
 
"I'm a sword polisher and have spent time researching and discussing with industry leaders like the late Gus Wolmar."

Two questions:
1. Who is Gus Wolmar?
2. Who did you train under to become a sword polisher?
 
NihontoEd said:
"I'm a sword polisher and have spent time researching and discussing with industry leaders like the late Gus Wolmar."

Two questions:
1. Who is Gus Wolmar?
2. Who did you train under to become a sword polisher?
Click to expand...
Gus Wolmar was a South African sword polisher and restorer. He collected and restored thousands of blades over a 40+ years. His collection of weaponry and mid to far eastern items spanned over 2 millennia. When he passed, his estate was ordered to return all items on his collection to museums to the countries of origin, as per his last will and testament.

He showed me a great deal. I've never formally trained. I should've said I polish swords on the side. I didn't mean to mislead. It was a hobby that I threw myself into. I learned the following after viewing, handling and witnessing swords older than most countries.
1. Red rust is a clear indication that the "old" sword you are looking at may be a fake. Especially a Japanese sword.
2. No power tools should be used on a sword.
3. The Japanese value the sword differently than the west. They value the craftsmanship. A sword made by Masamune in the 1300's is worth more than a sword made in the 1200's. Masamune is regarded by many as the best swordsmith in Japanese history and standards.
4. In WW2 the Japanese government mass produced swords for the kamikaze. Sons from samurai families became officers easier than normal recruited civilians. Many family swords travelled with the officers. Many allied soldiers returned to their homes with these swords as momentos, trophies. Gus showed me a blade that was snapped in half with a vice. Some family squabble on farm...

Most swords that "served" in the war were stamped with an emblem. Not a number. Officers swords of samurai lineage were mostly spared. It would be seen as a dishonor to mark the blade permanently.

Well that's what I can remember of the top of my head.

I bought a book on sword polishing and with time and patience, I was able to achieve great success with blades.

I'm no expert. Just no novice.

The numbered blade in question maybe from a later production. Han Wei, Paul Chen etc...they make high quality blades, some are numbered.

I admit I don't know everything and I'm always learning. Never turn down good advice or a reference book on the subject of weaponry. I've been into blades since I was knee high to a cricket. 😁


The book on sword polishing I purchased.
 
Last edited:
I know nothing of Mr. Wolmar.

What I do know is that 95% of what you said is incorrect. You might consider buying a few more books and reading them.

I can only hope you are not polishing Japanese swords after reading a book. Many Japanese swords have been ruined by amateurs such as yourself. Japanese Togishi must complete a 10 year apprenticeship under a licensed Togishi (Japanese sword polisher) and be found competent before becoming licensed themselves. Polishing Nihonto is much more complicated than one might believe and there is absolutely no way someone could learn from a book only.

Tell me about the best or oldest sword you have handled.
 
NihontoEd said:
I know nothing of Mr. Wolmar.

What I do know is that 95% of what you said is incorrect. You might consider buying a few more books and reading them.

I can only hope you are not polishing Japanese swords after reading a book. Many Japanese swords have been ruined by amateurs such as yourself. Japanese Togishi must complete a 10 year apprenticeship under a licensed Togishi (Japanese sword polisher) and be found competent before becoming licensed themselves. Polishing Nihonto is much more complicated than one might believe and there is absolutely no way someone could learn from a book only.

Tell me about the best or oldest sword you have handled.
Click to expand...
Hey Ed,

I agree that this gentleman has some more to learn as do we all. Certainly no one should be touching antique blades who hasn't done a real ten year apprenticeship with a licensed togishi. That said, perhaps a little less abrasive.... If you will pardon the term...
 
I would never work on an old katana without proper training. I've seen a sword get devalued to nothing by mistakes. I've only worked on cheap production swords like Cold Steel and Han Wei.

I spent time with Gus, a person that did it for 40 years. Not just book learned.

The oldest blade I've handled is a sword from the late 1200's.

You said I was 95% incorrect. Please tell me what I was wrong. I'm always willing to learn
 
NihontoEd said:
I know nothing of Mr. Wolmar.

What I do know is that 95% of what you said is incorrect. You might consider buying a few more books and reading them.

I can only hope you are not polishing Japanese swords after reading a book. Many Japanese swords have been ruined by amateurs such as yourself. Japanese Togishi must complete a 10 year apprenticeship under a licensed Togishi (Japanese sword polisher) and be found competent before becoming licensed themselves. Polishing Nihonto is much more complicated than one might believe and there is absolutely no way someone could learn from a book only.

Tell me about the best or oldest sword you have handled.
Click to expand...
SLarrat answered your questions and you tell him he's 95% wrong and in a pretty rude manner.
You seem to be putting yourself out there as an expert.
What are your qualifications?
 
Triton said:
That said, perhaps a little less abrasive.... If you will pardon the term...
Click to expand...
Triton, I don't feel I was "abrasive", direct yes, accurate yes. I am not one to tip toe around anyones delicate sensibilities, especially when they are stating that they are a sword polisher and potentially ruining historical Japanese swords.

SLarratt said:
You said I was 95% incorrect. Please tell me what I was wrong. I'm always willing to learn
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that you posted in a topic about Japanese Swords.

What you stated was;
“I'm a sword polisher”
Click to expand...
Wrong. You are not.


You claimed to be a sword polisher, then when called on that, you recanted by saying,
“I've never formally trained. I should've said I polish swords on the side. I didn't mean to mislead.”
Click to expand...
Polishing swords “on the side” is still polishing.


“Red rust is a clear indication that the "old" sword you are looking at may be a fake. Especially a Japanese sword.”
Click to expand...
Wrong. Many older Japanese Swords develop “red rust” over the old patination from neglect combined with the elements.

“In WW2 the Japanese government mass produced swords for the kamikaze”.
Click to expand...
Wrong. They produced non-traditionally swords for the Army, and Navy (Kaigunto), including pilots. These non-traditionally made sword were collectively known as Showato. Prior to WWII, beginning around 1900 they were producing Kyu-gunto (old military sword) which resembled European swords. The term Gunto literally means “military sword” and refers to the mounting with no bearing on the sword mounted, as older, ancestral blades were allowed to be mounted in gunto mounts. Shin-gunto (new military sword) such as the Type 94, 95, and 98 were adopted and put into use beginning in 1935 with the release of the Type 94. Many smiths during this time also forged traditionally made swords known as Gendaito.

“Most swords that "served" in the war were stamped with an emblem.”
Click to expand...
Wrong. There was the occasional “kakihan” stamped onto the nakago by a few smiths. Many were signed and dated, some undated, some with neither (mumei).

“I've only worked on cheap production swords like Cold Steel and Han Wei.”
Click to expand...
If you had said this in the beginning, I probably would not have replied as I do not care what you do with reproductions.
I am however, passionate about Nihonto and their preservation.
 
kvaughn said:
SLarrat answered your questions and you tell him he's 95% wrong and in a pretty rude manner.
You seem to be putting yourself out there as an expert.
What are your qualifications?
Click to expand...
You have me confused with that other guy. You know, the one who cares what you think.

I'm no expert, but 40 years of studying Nihonto may have resulted in my knowledge exceeding that of the average bear.
 
NihontoEd said:
You have me confused with that other guy. You know, the one who cares what you think.

I'm no expert, but 40 years of studying Nihonto may have resulted in my knowledge exceeding that of the average bear.
Click to expand...
Rude,arrogant, cute responses and still didn't answer the question.
You MUST be an expert!
Studying? Read a lot of books?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top