Keen Kutter Barlow--what exactly is this?

Luger1952

Luger1952

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I just recently acquired this very interesting nice condition vintage Keen Kutter Barlow from BF member Coolio (thanks Brad). Anyway, I have some questions about this Barlow. Brad thought from his research it was probably a parts knife and it very well may be. It is definitely different than the other two I own. First of all, the stylized KEEN KUTTER on the bolsters is a lot smaller (about two thirds the size) than on the examples I have and photographs of KK Barlows I have seen on BF. Second, the bolsters are more rounded than again the two I have or have seen photos of. I was looking at a copy of a circa 1917 EC Simmons HDW. Keen Kutter catalog and there are pictures of the rounded bolster design but all the KEEN KUTTER stylized bolster letters are the bigger configuration or size. In looking at the catalogs from three different time periods the KK bolster logo remains the larger font size from what I can see. The 1939 EC Simmons KK catalog shows both rounded and more square bolster designs. Third, the pen knife is behind the primary spear blade. Again, I have not seen this configuration that I recall. The tang stamp on the mark side is the EC Simmons at the top of the saw tooth KK logo (1870-1940). The same with the pen blade on the non nail nick mark facing side. It is a vintage piece but how vintage and under what circumstances it was created I can't tell from my research so far. I know that Keen Kutter Barlows were made by Walden, Winchester and Schrade before the company was sold by Shapleigh to Val-Test Distributors in the late 50s. The pin placement or layout looks more like Winchester Barlows of the 20-40s era. Maybe it is a parts knife, a proto type or a lunch box special. However, the size of the stylized letters KEEN KUTTER on the bolsters has me stumped. What am I missing? And what do you think about this Barlow? Thanks for your input and insight! Lloyd



 
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Lloyd, I believe Charlie told me one time that Utica contracted knives, even for CASE if memory serves. It sure looks like and old Kutmaster I once had. For a working man's knife what it lacked in finished details it made up for in build quality.

The bone, build and bolster are almost spot on to that Kutmaster.

Nice knife regardless of its true origin.

Found the picture I posted in Charlie's Barlow thread. Pin placement, blades/grind sure looks spot on as well Lloyd:thumbup:

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Thanks Paul I will have to research Utica and Kutmaster and see what I can find. Thank you very much for your input and direction! Lloyd
 
Thanks Paul for adding the picture! You could be on to something here. The pin placement, the pen behind the the primary or main spear blade and the rounded bolsters are certainly right. Thanks again, Lloyd
 
Lloyd, that's a very interesting Keen Kutter Barlow and it looks great. I agree with Paul that it was probably made by Utica. Certainly is built the same way.

Utica, like other cutleries, did/does make knives on contract for other companies to include the old hardware companies. Interesting that they might have had a contract with E.C. Simmons given the Walden/Winchester/E.C. Simmons history.

I looked through Keen Kutter Pocket Knives by Alvin Sellens and could not find one like it... which may mean nothing more than Mr. Sellens didn't come across one as he compiled information for his book.

What is its closed length? Also would like to see close up of tang stamp... E.C. Simmons used at least 3 (that I know of & probably more) different Keen Kutter tang stamps.

This is a part of knife collecting that I enjoy. :)
 
Al thanks for your input! Interesting that there may be a Utica connection. Closed over all length is 3 5/16 ". Here are some pictures of the KK tang stamps on both the primary and the secondary pen blade. What do you think? Thanks again for your help and opinion--much appreciated. Lloyd

 
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Lloyd, it appears that St Louis is abbreviated as STL on the master blade... if I'm seeing it correctly. If so, I'll add that variation to my files.

The pen blade stamp looks a little odd... not crisp like the master blade, but that could just be angle/lighting.

Re: closed length. 1/16 of an inch more would make it 3 3/8" which is the advertised size and measured sized of the Keen Kutter Barlows I have. 1/16 of an inch would make it 3 1/4" which is the measured size of my New Holland Barlow by Utica.

Anyway, I'm gonna be on the lookout for one of those. :)
 
All of the metal has been resurfaced, including the tangs and the bolster. Lloyd, can you post a photo of the well from above with both blades open and also a photo of the springs with both blades open?

You might show it to BRL for his feedback.
 
I concur with what the others here have said, the knife looks like it was a contract knife made by Utica.
It looks a lot like this little Utica I had for a short while.
Utica%20barlow%2001.JPG


The quote below is Charlie's post with a picture of some of his collection of Utica made Barlows.
waynorth said:
Nice, earlier Utica, P&G!
Utica made Barlows for many other companies, along with other knives. Here are some more Barlows:
UticaMadeBarlows_zpsbemvuxok.jpg

In case you cannot read the tangs they are, from the top:
Case XX
Case XX
Kutmaster
Kutmaster
Ka-Bar
Kutmaster
Schrade Cut. Co!
Click to expand...
 
Another Utica subcontract! Thanks for posting that pic, P&G!! I was just going to look for it!!
I haven't seen that one before, Lloyd. Another to add to the list!

I wonder if Utica made Barlows for Everybody!!??:eek:
:D
 
^ Sometimes the smartest guys ask the most questions. And have beards. And lots of Barlows. And books on Barlows (and should write a book...:thumbup:)

Interesting thread Lloyd, you have gotten a lot further than I did figuring this one out, nice job keepers of porch knowledge!
 
Thanks Jake, Al, Brad, Charlie, Paul, Rob and Pistonandgears! Jake here are the pictures of the folder that you requested. Jake do these pictures offer enough detail or resolution to make any further assessment about this KK? Thanks to all of you for your input and ideas-very much appreciated! Lloyd

 
Lloyd,

I would not call it a parts knife, however, the pen might have been replaced with another KK blade. It is possible the extra tang wear came from a burr or rough spots on the liner. Regardless, it is a fine knife and I would assume it an original. As you already know, many pen blades seemed to get broken on the old Barlows. I agree with others, Utica made, most likely. :)
 
coolio said:
^ Sometimes the smartest guys ask the most questions. And have beards. And lots of Barlows. And books on Barlows (and should write a book...:thumbup:)
Click to expand...

He knows ! Just messin with him ! ;):D:D:D
 
If you really want an answer, I'd recommend showing it to BRL. He's got a good eye. Please don't take the criticism the wrong way. The subject of the thread is "what exactly is this", not whether it is worth owning, so I will be a little critical. I think coolio gave a fair description and based on the photos alone I wouldn't disagree that it may be a parts knife. At the very least, it has been completely resurfaced. The photos are small but I was looking for the fit of the blades and springs and any additional signs inside the liners that might indicate that the knife had been reworked. It may be fun to use but I wouldn't rewrite the books on Keen Kutter knives based on this example just yet. For some favorite patterns, I have folders with photos of all the examples that I've seen. One folder for reworks, one folder for unknowns, and one folder for good examples. The folders for reworks are always several times the size of the folder for good examples. None of the reworks had been marked to indicate that they weren't original. Hopefully that's something that's changing.
 
Thanks Jake for applying your critical assessment or eye to this folder! That is exactly what I was looking for. I wanted someone with extensively more expertise than I possess to give it a good looking over realizing the limitations imposed by less than good or high quality photographs. I was certainly not trying to suggest, imply or holding out some kind of hope that this was some new undiscovered variation or model. I was just very curious based on some of the not so standard features we see in most or all the KK Barlows I have seen or observed what exactly this may be. I bought it knowing that it may be a "parts knife" or a hobbyist boosted folder. I had no allusions about this from the get go. However the Keen Kutter stylized lettering size on the bolsters is what really had me stumped or intrigued. I have not seen in my research another with this approx 2/3 the size of all the original examples I observed and yet the execution is crisp, well defined, in the correct style, and exact composition (in terms of spacing and letter slant) as these originals--it is just smaller. In terms of being completely resurfaced it very well may be and I can totally agree with this. Anyway, thanks again I just thought it would be fun to analyze this example even with the limitations imposed by not handling the specimen in person. Lloyd
 
I'll concur with the more knowledgeable among us that what you've got there is likely a Utica-built Barlow. Here are some of mine to help your comp





A Cutsure-branded Barlow that also seems to be a Utica build:





Sorry for the extreme crops. Since this comes up a lot I will endeavor to get more and better photos of the Cutsure this weekend, perhaps alongside the Kutmaster and Utica.

I have a fairly old KK Barlow but it seems to be from a completely different maker than yours; it seems to have a few traits in common with the older Schrades or maybe the old Robeson from his "traditional Barlows" thread here -- though I think the rocker pin of the Schrades might be just a bit closer to the distal end. Heck, reviewing my old photos and Charlie's comprehensive collection of Barlows, it almost seems like the alignment of the pins and the overall shape on the Case matches most closely.



 
Lloyd, you are going to like this one, I don't know what to make of it. The KeenKutter is another one out of the collection I bought a few knives from. All knives are in new unused condition. Some such as the Boker and Simmons may be rehandled, I don't know as the type of bone seems to fit the time period.
This Simmons KeenKutter is a dead ringer for yours and appears to be made by Utica, to me it looks like a legit factory made knife but I could be fooled.

IMG_5552_zpsctfgqfot.jpg


IMG_5553_zps197k4p8b.jpg


IMG_5557_zps9wzhtvyz.jpg


IMG_5556_zpslaharcfl.jpg
 
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