Kel-tec Plr-16 Pistol And Levange Muzzle Break

valleytinworks

valleytinworks

Joined
Dec 13, 2005
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Anyone Have Any Experience With The Lavange Muzzle Break And The Plr16 Pistol Or Any Experience With The Plr16 Kel-tec Pistol In General
 
I work in a gun shop and there are 3 brands we will never carry; Kel-Tec, Hi-Point, and Bersa. I realize that they're inexpensive and alot of people give them good reviews, but you would be better off saving up a little extra money and buying something else. If you still think that from the "good" reviews the gun is worth buying, think of it this way: Most people who buy a Kel-Tec, Hi-Point etc. buy one because they don't have the money to buy something better, or just want a cheap gun and don't want to spend alot of money. So most of these people don't shoot alot because they either don't have the money for ammo, or don't want to spend money on ammo. Because of this, the gun doesn't have a decent amount of rounds put through it, and it usually doesn't malfunction. If you take a Kel-Tec or Hi-Point and shoot 200 rounds through it in one sitting, I gaurantee you it will malfunction. The Hi-Point will probably disassemble in your hands :). If your looking for an inexpensive handgun my advice would be to save up a little bit extra and buy a Ruger. They are excellent quality guns and for the most part not much more than $300.
 
i have heard nothing but good reviews on the hipoint, they look like something outta the planet of the apes but the function just fine.

i have had 2 keltecs, the 9MM subcompact and the P32, sold the 9MM to a bud who has shot the heck outta it with nary a problem, and still have the P32, imho a better pocket pistol has never been made, and i have tried a few (ie walther PPk, seecamp .32, etc).

making blanket comdemnations is, imho, wrong (usually).
 
SIFU1A said:
i have heard nothing but good reviews on the hipoint, they look like something outta the planet of the apes but the function just fine.

i have had 2 keltecs, the 9MM subcompact and the P32, sold the 9MM to a bud who has shot the heck outta it with nary a problem, and still have the P32, imho a better pocket pistol has never been made, and i have tried a few (ie walther PPk, seecamp .32, etc).

making blanket comdemnations is, imho, wrong (usually).
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

"making blanket condemnations" is a common trait I've seen among gun shop jockeys. The funny thing is that they rarely agree with one another. This reinforces that these condemnations are purely individual, personal opinions; rarely based in facts other than hearsay and limited first-hand experience.

I own a P11. The stable also includes Glock, Ruger, Smith, Stevens, Winchester, Mossberg, Tanfoglio, Colt, etc. I didn't buy the P11 purely because of price but because of function and features.

More so, the selection criteria for the P3AT among experienced, qualified shooters tend to be concealability and lightweight. Not "cheaping out."

Every time I cruise THR, GT, TFL, etc. looking for deals on used handguns, I'm :eek: shocked :eek: that such a huge percentage of guns state a lifetime usage of 300 rounds or less. These are anything from Kimbers to Seecamps Glocks to Colts to HKs to FN to Smith to... I'll stop there. The point is it appears most people rarely shoot their firearm in the first place; the amount of personal funds they have seem to be irrelevant.

Then again, this is only opinion based on personal experience.
 
Furthermore, (sorry... I'm back) you either don't know what a PLR16 is *or* you came here only to blast a little manufacturer snobbery this way without any true relevance to this thread.

Does Ruger make a semi-automatic .223 pistol??????
 
I`ve been meaning to try a Levang. From what I understand it directs a lot of the sound downrange and away from the shooter. Nice with a 9.5" barrel.

Of course it makes no difference because Mike the retail gun shop sales person says KelTecs are junk. Everyone knows that sales people like those at car lots and Walmarts are the foremost experts in their fields so I`ll ignore the over 10,000 trouble free rounds I`ve put through my own early model KelTec P-11 and all the experienced shooters/collectors I know with KelTecs and Bersas that have provided excellent service and I`ll defer to his superior knowledge. :jerkit: Go buy one of them Ruger .223 pistols. :p Marcus
 
Paddling_man said:
:thumbup:

"making blanket condemnations" is a common trait I've seen among gun shop jockeys. The funny thing is that they rarely agree with one another. This reinforces that these condemnations are purely individual, personal opinions; rarely based in facts other than hearsay and limited first-hand experience.

I own a P11. The stable also includes Glock, Ruger, Smith, Stevens, Winchester, Mossberg, Tanfoglio, Colt, etc. I didn't buy the P11 purely because of price but because of function and features.

More so, the selection criteria for the P3AT among experienced, qualified shooters tend to be concealability and lightweight. Not "cheaping out."

Every time I cruise THR, GT, TFL, etc. looking for deals on used handguns, I'm :eek: shocked :eek: that such a huge percentage of guns state a lifetime usage of 300 rounds or less. These are anything from Kimbers to Seecamps Glocks to Colts to HKs to FN to Smith to... I'll stop there. The point is it appears most people rarely shoot their firearm in the first place; the amount of personal funds they have seem to be irrelevant.

Then again, this is only opinion based on personal experience.
Click to expand...

agreed, i certainly didnt buy my P32 'cuz its cheap, i bought it because it was (and still is) slimmer and lighter and holds more ammo than any other .32 pocket pistol, plus its acceptablely accurate (for its size/lack of sites) and mine has NEVER malfunctioned, not even once, which suprised me, i did do the KTOG thing on mine, which smooths out the internals/feed ramp/etc, and installed a large red bead on the front of the slide to serve as a sight, you know the bead off a shotgun, but for $200 its been a reliable, easy to carry fairly accurate little pistol which i have carried quite a bit, my neighbor has a seecamp, which is also good, but heavier/holds less ammo/wider + its 2X the cost, and have also tried the NA arms seecamp clones, same deal.
 
Kel-Tec and Hi-Point guns are worthless. Save a bit more and buy a Springfield or a Glock. As far as the 5.56 pistol goes, why would you ever need that? If you want a gun that shoots rifle rounds buy a rifle.
 
:jerkit: :jerkit:
Munky said:
Kel-Tec and Hi-Point guns are worthless.
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;)
Massad Ayoob - The Complete Book of Handguns said:
The company has taken this new design a long way in a short time... Rick Howard, an extremely knowledgeable pistolsmith, considers the P11 his favorite of the ultracompact 9mm pistols. My friend Harry Adams, an instructor in Massachusetts and several time graduate of the Smith & Wesson Academy, has put more than a thousand rounds throuh his, including a lot of hot CorBon, with no signs of excessive wear, no breakage, and not a single malfunction. Dave Spaulding, the street-smart patrol lieutentant who writes for Combat Handguns, Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement, and Police magazines knows several officers who are carrying them for backup, and now carries one for that purpose himself. He has found the current Kel-Tec to be eminiently reliable and, as I also found, surprisingly accurate... [The] P11 pistol has proven itself worthy of consideration by any police officer or law abiding armed citizen.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... Munky or Massad?
 
Well I can only call them as I see them. If you want to waste your money dont come crying to me when it fails you when you need it the most. Then we will see who is :jerkit:.
 
Do any of you guys owns the Kel-tec SU-16, I've been thinking of getting it? A good gun? Looks like a fun plinker...Thanks in advance -
 
Munky said:
Well I can only call them as I see them. If you want to waste your money dont come crying to me when it fails you when you need it the most. Then we will see who is :jerkit:.
Click to expand...

Way to go in your first 12 posts. Lots of enlightenment there. Trust me, if my P11 ever fails "when I need it most," you would have never entered the list of people that I might come crying to, newbie.

I own a Glock (G30) among several other handguns. They're great guns. You've never seen a Glock or Springfield fail "when I need it most?" Wow... I'll even qualify the previous statement to the polymer guns only; you really don't want to bring the reliability of the 1911 form factor into this discussion. :rolleyes:

Exactly which Glock or Springfield are you suggesting would fit the size/weight role of a P3AT?? :yawn: Or, in this case, the role of a semi-auto .223 sub-rifle? Do a little research. The PLR16 is meant to compete with the no-stock, pistol grip, short barrel AK and AR series, not a bloody XD45.

You know? None of this is a glowing endorsement, on my part, of a PLR16. I just don't suffer those who like to make blanket statements. Few matters in this world are truly black and white except the narrow views of the uninformed.
 
Never had a KelTec but have had several Hi-Points over the years and never had a failure or complaint. The 9mm carbine has been a great little rifle. I taught my daughter to shoot with it. Had a .40 Hi-Point pistol and while it's not the finest handgun out there it served it's purpose.

And for the record..I own Springfield, Colt, Ruger, H&K, Beretta and others. They are higher quality and a helluva a lot nicer looking but I've never had the Hi-Point fail.
 
VTW, I don't have much experience with the PLR16, but I have shot the heck out of the SU16. I bought one for my dad and we've put something like 4 or 5 thousand rounds through it. The operation of the two is similar, and I believe it to be a VERY reliable rifle. It always seems to stay fairly clean, too, FWIW; much cleaner than an AR.

As for KT's quality/reliability, I've personally owned 3 P32's and 2 P3AT's. All had at least 500 rounds through them with no malfunction whatsoever. I used 1 P32 and 1 P3AT in a weekly IDPA shoot for a little over 2 months each.

100 rounds/weekly shoot + practice rounds multiplied by 9 weeks = >900 rounds each.

Zero malfunctions, including magazine problems from hitting the floor on reloads. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, "gun experts".

BTW, I watched 2 Ruger pistols fail to fire CONSISTENTLY during many IDPA shoots. No problem on the range, but while firing from different positions and while moving, they constantly gave the shooters problems. Not condemning Ruger, just an observation. I've owned a few Rugers, myself, as well as HK, SIG, Colt, Glock, Kimber, KT, Kahr, Springfield, Seecamp, NAA, Taurus, and HS. Well, those are the pistols, anyway. ;)
 
Munky said:
Well I can only call them as I see them. If you want to waste your money dont come crying to me when it fails you when you need it the most. Then we will see who is :jerkit:.
Click to expand...


whatever, have ya ever even seen one much less shot one??
 
Paddling_man said:
Way to go in your first 12 posts. Lots of enlightenment there. Trust me, if my P11 ever fails "when I need it most," you would have never entered the list of people that I might come crying to, newbie.

I own a Glock (G30) among several other handguns. They're great guns. You've never seen a Glock or Springfield fail "when I need it most?" Wow... I'll even qualify the previous statement to the polymer guns only; you really don't want to bring the reliability of the 1911 form factor into this discussion. :rolleyes:

Exactly which Glock or Springfield are you suggesting would fit the size/weight role of a P3AT?? :yawn: Or, in this case, the role of a semi-auto .223 sub-rifle? Do a little research. The PLR16 is meant to compete with the no-stock, pistol grip, short barrel AK and AR series, not a bloody XD45.

You know? None of this is a glowing endorsement, on my part, of a PLR16. I just don't suffer those who like to make blanket statements. Few matters in this world are truly black and white except the narrow views of the uninformed.
Click to expand...

So because I dont have 2,000 posts that automatically makes me an idiot? I dont think so.

I dont care that the PLR16 isnt "meant to compete" with the practical guns of the world, I simply wanted to know what you would use one for that wouldnt be better done with a rifle.

As for the P3AT you can get a Glock G28 which is the same caliber 10 ounces heavier and and inch in each direction larger but not a piece of junk, plus you would carry 3 extra rounds in the clip. And at those dimensions you arent limited to .380 auto, you can get it in .40 (G27), .45 ACP (G30) & GAP (G39).

Unfortunatly Kel-Tec is one of those brands that deserves a blanket statement to protect the uninformed from buying their products.
 
Munky said:
So because I dont have 2,000 posts that automatically makes me an idiot? I dont think so.

I dont care that the PLR16 isnt "meant to compete" with the practical guns of the world, I simply wanted to know what you would use one for that wouldnt be better done with a rifle.

As for the P3AT you can get a Glock G28 which is the same caliber 10 ounces heavier and and inch in each direction larger but not a piece of junk, plus you would carry 3 extra rounds in the clip. And at those dimensions you arent limited to .380 auto, you can get it in .40 (G27), .45 ACP (G30) & GAP (G39).

Unfortunatly Kel-Tec is one of those brands that deserves a blanket statement to protect the uninformed from buying their products.
Click to expand...

Some guns are really just about being fun, not practical. :)
The Glock .380's are MUCH harder to acquire since they have to be imported through non-standard channels as they do not meet Federal import standards.
They are also blowback versus Kel-Tec's locked breech, and larger and heavier than the svelte P-3AT making them much less packable.
As you stated, at the dimensions of a Glock .380, you could be carrying something more potent. But at the dimensions of a Kel-Tec .380 you really can't.
I haven't had any trouble with my P-32 with just over 400 rounds through it, and I'm looking to buy a P3AT to keep it company.
Kel-Tec's new bullpup .308 has me wishing it was next year already. :)
 
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