Kill Bill................Sword Questions............

T

The Towcutter

Joined
Jan 16, 2001
Messages
166
Ok, I'm pretty knowledgable about knives, but I am ignorant about swords.

I just saw Kill Bill. Cool movie. Lots and lots of swordfighting. If you haven't seen the movie, don't read the rest of this post....













Black Mamba gets a Hanzo sword from the dude in Okinawa. It seemingly is the best sword in the world. It chops through other swords like they are plastic and hacks limbs off like they are dolls arms.


Is any of this stuff realistic? Are there swords out there that are that good in reality? Is this just fantasy? If there are swords of this quality who makes them and how much $$$$$ do they cost.

I'm admittedly an idiot when it comes to swords, but my interest has been peaked!!!
 
I don't think that sounds realistic. Could a knife made from a "super steel" like INFI cut a knife made from more common steels like 440 or 1095 like it was plastic?
 
You get what you pay for. No, no sword will cut threw something harder then itself like butter. I haven't cut someones limbs off with any of my swords. yet. Hollywood is never real. You won't find the magical mystic katana to cut threw buses, ect. You will find very nicely crafted blades...try Howard Clark.


Remember, get what you paid for.
 
Swords are made to cut limbs or flesh-like targets, not to cut other swords. A sword might be able to cut another sword, but it will sustain damage (chip, crack or even break)

Even in Japanese swordmanship, it's seldom to see someone block an incoming sword attack with his sword. I heard that in certain styles it was considered a sin to block a sword attack using one's sword .
 
The cutting through of other blades, like the legendary ability of katanas to chop through gun barrels is utter B.S. As for the removal of limbs (albeit without the super high pressure blood spray) that is totally feasible. Not so much in the way she was doing (i.e. flipping about....using one hand) but with proper form and a well made blade it would definitely be possible. There is documentation of Japanese swords being used on both cadavers and live prisoners as a cutting medium, where amputation of limbs and even full body bisection is achieved.
 
The nihonto used in the movie would have all been about .6 to .7% carbon, which puts an upper bound on their usable hardness.

There's nothing Hattori Hanzo (played by Sonny Chiba) could have done that would have allowed his blades to have had a dramatic advantage over the Crazy 88's swords in terms of sharpness.

So you're not going to cut through the other guys sword. You could give each other some really impressive dings.

You could probably break the other person's sword, though. You wouldn't want to hit the other sword edge on. As to how easy it is to break a 27" 1084 blade of tempered martensite or bainite, I have no clue.

Maybe if we invoke Kevin Cashen's name, he will magically appear in this thread and educate us.
 
Hattori Hanzo was in the movie? It looks like a modern movie so is it a flashback or something?

I guess I'll have to watch it. ;)
 
It's the modern day descendent of the Hattori Hanzo lineage.

"According to Tarantino, Sonny Chiba's character, Hattori Hanzo, is meant to be the most recent descendant of his character(s) from "Hattori Hanzô: Kage no Gundan" (1980). The series was done in multiple various installments, in which Chiba would play Hanzo a generation removed from the previous installment."
 
Many, many historical accounts of European battles during the Napoleanic and Crimean wars show varied cavalry sabers as being capable of loping off limbs (swung down). The Indian Talwar and the Scimtar are also supposed to able to due this. CNN aired an execution by beheadingg of a Princess a few years ago. If memory serves that too was a sword. Even the Kukri knife can sever a wrist. During the French revolution what spurred the invention of the guillotine were complaints from executioners who were being ordered to execute many per day in a short period of time, and it was very hard to keep the blade sharp enough to behead cleanly after it cleaved through four or five. Hydraulic presses can stamp and cut steel when it is braced. The process is called shear. Your opponents sword would have to be braced top and bottom before you stood a chance of cleaving it with a sheering action. Your edge would be dull afterwards.
 
If knives and swords easily cutting through other blades was possible I'm sure Lynn Thompson would have a test on the Proof video showing a Cold Steel knife cutting through a stack of competitors' knives.:D
 
The traditional Japanese weapons have developed a borderline lunatic mystique; IMHO mostly because of their elegant, lethal-looking design. They are tremendously sharp, for a sword; this is because they weren't designed to hack through heavy armor before reaching flesh. The longswords we associate with European feudal knights were dull, in comparison, but they retained utility after battering through plate mail armor. A katana would have been ruined by the punishment a Western knight's weapon was designed to withstand; that delicate, very sharp edge would have some sickening half-moon chunks missing. You can make a sword tough enough that it will break an inferior weapon, but a sword that can routinely cut through other swords is pure myth.
As for lopping off limbs and heads, well, if you've got a sharp sword and a good swing, sure. superc mentioned the tulwar and scimitar; these were weapons with a very similar design philosophy to the dai-sho carried by samurai. A (relatively) light blade, with some curvature to enhance slashing damage, and a very sharp edge. European cavalry sabers were also quite sharp, and curved. All of the above were not designed or intended to cut through a lot of metal, and none of the above would hack through another sword like it was a celery stalk.
From what (admittedly little) I know of Japanese swordsmanship, blocking a sword strike with your own blade was strongly discouraged; they understood the relative fragility of (and steep expense to replace or repair) their blades.
 
A sword can cut thorough another sword, but it will sustain major damage in the process. Edge-to-edge combat is not advised, and, while parrying and hitting is effective, a sword will almost always sustain major damage if the block is edge-to-edge. That's why in kenjutsu, it is very rare for a block to be made edge-to-edge without some sort of parry involved. A sword will sustain very significant damage if the block is edge-to-edge. Edge-to-shinogi (side) is sometimes used, however, this still have a chance of bending the blade, albeit much less so.

As far as limbs go, try doing tamishigiri with a piece of yellow bamboo in the middle. The sword will slice through that like butter, maybe a little bit of resistance when going through the bamboo. With proper technique, one can lop of limbs quite easily. That's what katanas are made to do - cut, and they do so very well.
 
Originally posted by superc
Even the Kukri knife can sever a wrist...
Click to expand...
Yeah...I guess even a khukuri might do this too...

attachment.php
Gurkha Ceremony

:barf: :barf:

:footinmou
 
The hydraulic press stamping out blades cuts them when the steel is annealed - that is, considerably softened.

His sword would have to be butter, to cut it like she does in the movie...:rolleyes:

Anybody who says otherwise, would need to step up and offer some proof. I've never seen any - only heard the folklore...

Can a hardened steel cut softer steel? Absolutely. How else do you suppose all these steel parts/tools/etc. are made out there in the real world? (Ok...ok...diamonds are used sometimes, too...)

But the sword-cutting sword is a farse and (aptly stated above) the fodder for another "Proof" DVD...


Sure makes for good hype, though, eh? :D


And it brought you here as well...:D



:p
 
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