King "Neo" Waterstone | The best kept secret in freehand sharpening

[DeadboxHero]

King "Neo" 800 grit

A total "sleeper" stone.

This is the best kept secret stone for getting into benchstones and freehand.
Has all the features of the more expensive Choseras and Shapton Glass, but better feedback, feel, mud, and cutting speed with less burnishing on chromium carbide rich stainless steels.

It's is a green silicon carbide abrasive stone but also has a magnesia bonding like what's used in the Naniwa Chosera
and Shapton stones.

The Silicon Carbide makes it a more powerful cutter and it has "splash and go" convenience so no soaking required.

It eats harder steel and more carbide rich steels better than the standard alumina ceramic abrasive stones that burnish carbide rich edges to death. It doesn't quite match CBN and Diamond in abrasive firepower but it makes for a great entry level Stone due to the more affordable abrasive.

Here is a video of the stone sharpening dull zdp-189 in under 60 seconds.

Listen to the feedback. It eats this steel.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Stuart Tierney's testing found this to be one of if not the fastest wearing stones in the roundup, of which he wrote:

This is the kinda stuff the King Neo was made for, tenacious steels, and it shows. Very little polish, lots of steel on the stone. But lots of mud too, which plagues this particular stone. It’s very quick, but it’s about as durable as chalk. Still, effective enough. 7/10

Have you measured the rate of wear compared to the other stones yet? Is your use for this stone primarily traditional-Japanese-style knives like the one shown?

 

[DeadboxHero]

For me the fastest wear stone was the
king traditional
And it cut slow which made it laughable.

Ratio of material removed for stone consumed is great. Sharpens fast and its $60

Vitrified bonded CBN and Diamond Stones last longer and cut faster but are $300-400 per one stone.

Shapton glass and chosera won't even tickle some of the more carbide rich steels at high volume. This stone will.

It's a great stone for getting started, I stand behind what I said.

Stuart Tierney's testing found this to be one of if not the fastest wearing stones in the roundup, of which he wrote:

Have you measured the rate of wear compared to the other stones yet? Is your use for this stone primarily traditional-Japanese-style knives like the one shown?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Like so many things, context matters. I'd be interested in knowing which steels were used and against which stones it was tested, as well as the relative edge condition of the edge at the start.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Yes, that would be interesting, that's always the problem with graphs is we never see the raw data that they were made with and how they gathered that data.


The thing is that testing done in the link was for wood chisels in low alloy carbon steel.

Wood chisels and Low alloy carbon steel are not what makes the King Neo shine and also aren't as relavent to what we want for a knife sharpening stone that will eat the more exotic small bevel stainless steels we have in the knife world.



Wood chisel guys prize stones that maintain flattness at all cost since the bevels they work with are HUGE and they want to minimize the convexity some and also not have to flatten the stone all the time.
Flattening stones is time not woodcarving.


Now, given the context of what I'm recommending the King Neo Waterstone for that's a completely different animal.

If they made something as ridiculous as a ZDP-189 wood chisel he would be singing praise on the King Neo I'm sure.

Lmao, but a zdp 189 wood chisel makes no sense, knives are used differently than chisels, so the same goes for stone selection as well I feel.

Like so many things, context matters. I'd be interested in knowing which steels were used and against which stones it was tested, as well as the relative edge condition of the edge at the start.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Hitachi Blue and Aogami Super is used for woodworking tools. Not the same as ZDP189, Chromium to Tungsten, but fairly high rockwell and very high carbide content.

I cannot speak to the Neo, but my regular waterstones don't work the best with any higher carbide steels although even the Nortons will get the job done.

The Suzuki Ya house brand can tackle pretty much any of the high carbide steels as long as the Vanadium content is not too high. They cut fast but can be prone to loading if you lean on em, requiring some nagura action. The Juumas were formulated specifically to manhandle the higher carbide woodworking steels and they deliver, although the 800 grit is mighty fine for its rating, more like a 1 or 1.2k - still pretty fast.

I've heard good things about the Neo line, this is first I heard they were "soft". Usually that's a trade off for speed. If it wears fast, yet cuts slow or takes a lot of passes to work I'd be inclined to wonder if the user was familiar with the stone. Esp compared to the Nortons - they're absolutely fantastic on gummy cheap stainless but absolutely not my first choice for woodworking tools.

 

[DeadboxHero]

That's the beauty of Aogami Super and Ultra blue (1.2562)
It doesn't need any special stones to sharpen.

Hitachi Blue and Aogami Super is used for woodworking tools. Not the same as ZDP189, Chromium to Tungsten, but fairly high rockwell and very high carbide content.

I cannot speak to the Neo, but my regular waterstones don't work the best with any higher carbide steels although even the Nortons will get the job done.

The Suzuki Ya house brand can tackle pretty much any of the high carbide steels as long as the Vanadium content is not too high. They cut fast but can be prone to loading if you lean on em, requiring some nagura action. The Juumas were formulated specifically to manhandle the higher carbide woodworking steels and they deliver, although the 800 grit is mighty fine for its rating, more like a 1 or 1.2k - still pretty fast.

I've heard good things about the Neo line, this is first I heard they were "soft". Usually that's a trade off for speed. If it wears fast, yet cuts slow or takes a lot of passes to work I'd be inclined to wonder if the user was familiar with the stone. Esp compared to the Nortons - they're absolutely fantastic on gummy cheap stainless but absolutely not my first choice for woodworking tools.

 

[HeavyHanded]

That's the beauty of Aogami Super and Ultra blue (1.2562)
It doesn't need any special stones to sharpen.

Neither does ZDP, but better stones make for a much nicer time of it.
Even W2 sharpens up better with better stones.

 

[DeadboxHero]

The king Neo will accentuate the zdp edge better though. Some folks may want a higher finish on Aogami Super.

Neither does ZDP, but better stones make for a much nicer time of it.
Even W2 sharpens up better with better stones.

 

[Blues]

Puts the edge on:

Takes the edge off:

 

[DeadboxHero]

CHEERS
Haha, hell yeah!

Puts the edge on:

Takes the edge off:

 

[DeadboxHero]

Went to a friend's house, sharpened his kitchen knives with just the King Neo

This stone has been a pleasure to own over the past year. I love the simplicity.

 

[Ourorboros]

I wish I remembered about this post. I've been debating whether to get Silicon Carbide waterstones, or go right to diamond waterstones like Naniwa or JKC.
The diamonds are pricey, but I tell myself that at least I'd be done with it. If they work well they'd make the SiC stones redundant.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I wish I remembered about this post. I've been debating whether to get Silicon Carbide waterstones, or go right to diamond waterstones like Naniwa or JKC.
The diamonds are pricey, but I tell myself that at least I'd be done with it. If they work well they'd make the SiC stones redundant.

I have both, and almost every stone imaginary, I still enjoy the King Neo.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Love that it's a full size 8x3" stone and has a base for wrist clearance without needing to buy an additional stone holder base, great for grab and go
It's Splash and go which is extremely convenient and has fast cutting speed, good feedback, not prone to serious gouging and loading. It can also generate a nice creamy mud for wide bevels.

Its fast enough to be used as minor repair stone but also fine enough to be used as the final finish for a excellent blend of toothiness and polish.

2 min each blade to go from light reflection bluntness at the edge to paper towel slicing sharp.

Love it

 

[David Richardson]

Just got this stone today. (Sorry BBB, didn't wait for you to get more in stock.)

Only sharpened one knife so far with VG-10. It cut well and gives an excellent edge. Also has excellent feedback. I was going to use a 2K stone after the Neo but decided to just strop it with 1 micron diamond on leather.

Will do a bunch of prep cutting tonight with that edge. Seems like it's going to work well.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Has one of the best balanced of toothiness and polish.

Love the Neo

Just got this stone today. (Sorry BBB, didn't wait for you to get more in stock.)

Only sharpened one knife so far with VG-10. It cut well and gives an excellent edge. Also has excellent feedback. I was going to use a 2K stone after the Neo but decided to just strop it with 1 micron diamond on leather.

Will do a bunch of prep cutting tonight with that edge. Seems like it's going to work well.

 

[maximus83]

Nice review! Sounds like the appeal is a combo of convenience to use, effectiveness on many steels, nice stone feedback, and lower cost.

In terms of the resulting edges and actual edge performance: if you use the best cbn or diamond media you have tried, versus your Neo, can you see any difference on leading steels in these broad categories?

* Higher carbide steels which let's define loosely as carbide content > 3% (so Elmax at the low end)
* Lower carbide steels

 

[DeadboxHero]

The edges on bonded CBN/Diamond were crisper, also if the Carbide volume and Hardness are both significant enough then the SiC will have a difficult time. (Rex121 at 71rc)

There may be some other differences as well that will be discussed at another time.

Nice review! Sounds like the appeal is a combo of convenience to use, effectiveness on many steels, nice stone feedback, and lower cost.

In terms of the resulting edges and actual edge performance: if you use the best cbn or diamond media you have tried, versus your Neo, can you see any difference on leading steels in these broad categories?

* Higher carbide steels which let's define loosely as carbide content > 3% (so Elmax at the low end)
* Lower carbide steels

 

[chalby]

The edges on bonded CBN/Diamond were crisper, also if the Carbide volume and Hardness are both significant enough then the SiC will have a difficult time. (Rex121 at 71rc)

There may be some other differences as well that will be discussed at another time.

I've been looking to get a good multi-purpose stone that works a bit quicker than the 1000 grit King stone I have. I was looking at this one and I was also considering a 1200 grit eze lap. They are both fairly similar in price where I am.

Honestly I was leaning towards the diamond(more because it requires no water, doesn't need flattening, and cleans easily), but I read this link from one of the stickies in this forum and am now a bit hesitant. That link seems to say that even very fine grit diamond stones are not a good choice. What's your take on this?

Love your work by the way. I have learned a lot from your youtube channel and posts here, so thank you.

Edit: I also want something that I can use with Maxamet and M4 etc