Kitchen knife convex edge

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Dec 14, 2019
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I have been experimenting with adding a small convex edge to kitchen knives based on what I have read here on the forums in order to improve food release. So far, I have done this only on the right-hand side of the (right-handed) knife using the slack between idler wheel and platen. I would like to find a better solution, but I am not ready to invest in a rotary platen. I have seen threads here mentioning cushioned platens using either leather, graphite or felt. Does anybody have any recommendation which of these materials would be best for convexing kitchen knives? Also, what type/weight leather and felt density do people use, and how do you attach it to the platen? If there are other materials or methods that I have missed, please let me know. I ordered a new platen assembly which should arrive tomorrow, and I plan to machine a couple of platens from aluminum for it, one to hold a ceramic liner and one for a cushioned platen.

Also, I would really appreciate some pointers as to what the convexed edge should look like. I've read descriptions like "I grind to 12 thou and then convex to zero" or "I add a small convex" that are a bit vague. I am specifically interested in how high up the blade the convexed portion should go, and how deep it should be for your average gyuto or chef knife. Do you guys add a convex portion to both sides of the blade or only one? On the knives I have done, the convex came about 3/8" up the blade and was somewhere between 5 and 10 thou deep. I made two identical knives, except one with convex and one without, and there is a noticeable difference in food release, especially with cucumbers, zucchini and onion, but I'm wondering if it could be further improved if I knew what I was doing...

Lastly, what do you use to hand sand the blade? On the last three blades I made, I used an aluminum backer that I glued a piece of leather to to sand the convexed side.
 
This is relevant to my interests also. Been thinking about glueing up some leather to mild steel and giving it a go myself.

I'd like to learn how to finish sand as well. I've used the slack belt to create convex before but it has washed out in the past when moving up grits on the machine
 
Convex.................
Thank you, Natlek. That is a great video. He shows the shape of the bevel very nicely against the ruler. It's less clear to me how he ended up with that shape. He mentioned breaking the grind into multiple areas and then blending them together but I'm not sure he showed that. I'll have to watch it again tonight.
 
I use a felt backed platen. Here is the link to McMaster-Carr where I get it from.
https://www.mcmaster.com/felt/hard-felt/
I use the 1/4" S2-32 felt and cut it fit the platen. Double sided carpet tape is great for attachment. It does dish out after some use so I replace it every so often.
On most larger kitchen blades where the starting thickness is around 0.1" I do a flat grind down to roughly half the starting blade thickness, heat treat the blade and then convex the rest of the way post heat treat. If I start with thin stock ie around 0.078" or thinner I do all grinding post heat treat and most of it on the felt platen.
Belts run very cool on felt as well which is a plus.
 
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I use a felt backed platen. Here is the link to McMaster-Carr where I get it from. https://www.9405503699300280763007mcmaster.com/felt/hard-felt/
I use the 1/4" S2-32 felt and cut it fit the platen. Double sided carpet tape is great for attachment. It does dish out after some use so I replace it every so often.
On most larger kitchen blades where the starting thickness is around 0.1" I do a flat grind down to roughly half the starting blade thickness, heat treat the blade and then convex the rest of the way post heat treat. If I start with thin stock ie around 0.078" or thinner I do all grinding post heat treat and most of it on the felt platen.
Belts run very cool on felt as well which is a plus.
Thank you, Robert. That gives me a good starting point.
 
Thank you, Natlek. That is a great video. He shows the shape of the bevel very nicely against the ruler. It's less clear to me how he ended up with that shape. He mentioned breaking the grind into multiple areas and then blending them together but I'm not sure he showed that. I'll have to watch it again tonight.
The reason why I put that video clip in this topic is more about food release then how to grind convex......Look , kitchen knives most time are thin and quite wide so convex grind would be very shallow/notable and do nothing about food release, it will only make knife to cut worse then flat grind because it has thicker cross section. Flat grind bevels with convex edge is another story .
But if you want to grind convex , this is how I do that . Grind bevels flat , then remove flat plate behind belt and you will easy grind that in convex.If your grinder use spring for tension ...LOCK somehow tension arm and you will do that fast and would look nice .
But if you really want to make kitchen knife which will really release food look in this topic .I grind/try every possible type of grind I found here and on net , some guys even are trying to cheat .......... :D Not single one really work , just complication and wasting time to grind some of them !
https://bladeforums.com/threads/my-first-try-to-grind-less-sticking-kitchen-knife.1649084/
Grind first flat and then blend everything on slack belt , it s easy ....

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Lastly, what do you use to hand sand the blade? On the last three blades I made, I used an aluminum backer that I glued a piece of leather to to sand the convexed side.
If it is barely noticeable convex leather would work .But if it is noticeable convex ...... rubber , soft one glued to hard surface
 
I use a felt backed platen. Here is the link to McMaster-Carr where I get it from. https://www.9405503699300280763007mcmaster.com/felt/hard-felt/
I use the 1/4" S2-32 felt and cut it fit the platen. Double sided carpet tape is great for attachment. It does dish out after some use so I replace it every so often.
On most larger kitchen blades where the starting thickness is around 0.1" I do a flat grind down to roughly half the starting blade thickness, heat treat the blade and then convex the rest of the way post heat treat. If I start with thin stock ie around 0.078" or thinner I do all grinding post heat treat and most of it on the felt platen.
Belts run very cool on felt as well which is a plus.

I can't believe the trouble I am having locating this stuff online here in Europe. I really need to try that felt :thumbsup:
 
This is a little bit off-topic - but here goes. I am really skeptical of convex grinds, and have no plans to put any on my knives. They sounds nice out of the gate, but from a maintenance perspective .... sharpen the blade a couple (or more) times, and the TBE increases quickly, giving you more of a hatchet feel than a nice slicing feel. I have a knife (santoku) I have had for ages that has a Granton edge that has been sharpened and sharpened, but still has a good food release behavior (like with Potatoes!), but also still has a nice slicing feel.

Another option would be a Urasuki (though I am only just now starting to experiment with them, and it would require a single-sided bevel)

Just IMHO.....
 
This is a little bit off-topic - but here goes. I am really skeptical of convex grinds, and have no plans to put any on my knives. They sounds nice out of the gate, but from a maintenance perspective .... sharpen the blade a couple (or more) times, and the TBE increases quickly, giving you more of a hatchet feel than a nice slicing feel. I have a knife (santoku) I have had for ages that has a Granton edge that has been sharpened and sharpened, but still has a good food release behavior (like with Potatoes!), but also still has a nice slicing feel.

Another option would be a Urasuki (though I am only just now starting to experiment with them, and it would require a single-sided bevel)

Just IMHO.....
Convex will maintain same geometry if you KNOW how to sharpen it ..............
Are you sure that you have knife with Granton edge ??
Knife with real Granton edge was not designed for food release :)
If you repeat test I make with potatoes with real GRANTON EDGE knife and potatoes don't stick to blade I will buy you new kitchen knife of your choice !
I can bet that you have Santoku knife with dimples ....not real Granton edge knife ........
And that Santoku with dimples will not release potatoes ......... Can you please make video how you cut potatoes to confirm what you are claim ?

Just IMHO.....
 
Convex will maintain same geometry if you KNOW how to sharpen it ..............
Are you sure that you have knife with Granton edge ??
Knife with real Granton edge was not designed for food release :)
If you repeat test I make with potatoes with real GRANTON EDGE knife and potatoes don't stick to blade I will buy you new kitchen knife of your choice !
I can bet that you have Santoku knife with dimples ....not real Granton edge knife ........
And that Santoku with dimples will not release potatoes ......... Can you please make video how you cut potatoes to confirm what you are claim ?

Just IMHO.....
Natlek - my point is that that the average (non maker) user will not be able to sharpen the blade to maintain the appropriate convex profile. They won’t know the difference.
 
This is a little bit off-topic - but here goes. I am really skeptical of convex grinds, and have no plans to put any on my knives. They sounds nice out of the gate, but from a maintenance perspective .... sharpen the blade a couple (or more) times, and the TBE increases quickly, giving you more of a hatchet feel than a nice slicing feel. I have a knife (santoku) I have had for ages that has a Granton edge that has been sharpened and sharpened, but still has a good food release behavior (like with Potatoes!), but also still has a nice slicing feel.

Another option would be a Urasuki (though I am only just now starting to experiment with them, and it would require a single-sided bevel)

Just IMHO.....
My experience with the Granton edge is quite different from yours. The santoku I have does not have good food release at all, but it is a pretty cheap knife. I'm going to experiment with the convex grind a bit, make a few knives and see how I like them and how easy they will be to maintain. I doubt they will turn into hatchets and it should be easy enough to thin the blade if required. It will take a long time to find out about the maintenance aspect, though. I've been using an AEB-L blade I made a year ago almost daily since I made it and only felt the need to sharpen it a couple of months ago and that was just a few strokes on a 1000 grit stone.

I am quite curious about single bevel knives with urasuki and hope you will post some updates about your experiments. I guess a chisel grind might be similar to a convex grind in terms of food release, the shape is kind of a first oder approximation of the convex grind. I don't know what the hollow on the other side might do in terms of food release. Sometimes, I try katsuramuki with cucumbers and one day, I want to make the proper knife for it.
 

That is a wholesale or producer where you buy large quantities. I figure you want the hard felt too, not just any old carpet. So for the highest density 0,44 gcm I found these guys now. Let's see if they ship to Sweden.

https://www.voigt24shop.de/Filz-Bas...cher-filz-weiss-dichte-0-44-g-cm-30x30cm.html
 
That is a wholesale or producer where you buy large quantities. I figure you want the hard felt too, not just any old carpet. So for the highest density 0,44 gcm I found these guys now. Let's see if they ship to Sweden.

https://www.voigt24shop.de/Filz-Bas...cher-filz-weiss-dichte-0-44-g-cm-30x30cm.html
That felt is substantially lighter than the one Robert suggested (around 64% of the density). The DIN 61200 equivalent to the felt from McMaster appears to be "Härte H5" (hardness), which has the same density at 0.68g/cm³. Unfortunately, a quick google search using German terms did not produce a source for it. I will order a piece from McMaster next week. If you cannot find anything in Sweden, let me know and I'll send you a piece. I don't know when it might arrive though, I got a Christmas card from Italy last week...
 
That felt is substantially lighter than the one Robert suggested (around 64% of the density). The DIN 61200 equivalent to the felt from McMaster appears to be "Härte H5" (hardness), which has the same density at 0.68g/cm³. Unfortunately, a quick google search using German terms did not produce a source for it. I will order a piece from McMaster next week. If you cannot find anything in Sweden, let me know and I'll send you a piece. I don't know when it might arrive though, I got a Christmas card from Italy last week...

Thanks Hubert, that's very kind of you!

I think Robert said he was using the 1/4" thick felt, and the highest density in that thickness at McMaster-Carr is 8 lbs per sq yd, which is roughly 0.43 gcm (the one in my link is 0.44 gcm). Or am I missing something?
 
Thank you, Natlek. That is a great video. He shows the shape of the bevel very nicely against the ruler. It's less clear to me how he ended up with that shape. He mentioned breaking the grind into multiple areas and then blending them together but I'm not sure he showed that. I'll have to watch it again tonight.
I found other video for you , more correlate with what we talk here :thumbsup:
He talk to much :) but , nice video how he grind convex:thumbsup:

 
This is a little bit off-topic - but here goes. I am really skeptical of convex grinds, and have no plans to put any on my knives. They sounds nice out of the gate, but from a maintenance perspective .... sharpen the blade a couple (or more) times, and the TBE increases quickly, giving you more of a hatchet feel than a nice slicing feel. I have a knife (santoku) I have had for ages that has a Granton edge that has been sharpened and sharpened, but still has a good food release behavior (like with Potatoes!), but also still has a nice slicing feel.

Another option would be a Urasuki (though I am only just now starting to experiment with them, and it would require a single-sided bevel)

Just IMHO.....
Well it depends on where you have started the convex...and how thick the blade is and how much convex there is

I make and sell about 13 kitchen knives a month For 3 years. All flat to convex ground. All thin behind the edge. There are 7 measurements I’m trying to hit depending on the knife and sizing

You probably know that after a few sharpenings the knife requires thinning which deals with your axe shaped concern.

If I made just the flat ground bevel with no convex I wouldn’t sell many to professionals, chefs, and cooking enthusiast which are most of my customers

With that said i use the top long platen in my grinder running backwards with a rubber radius platen with the same felt already mentioned

but I can also do this on a hard platen with the belt coming forward... in other words I can grind any convex I want free hand because I’ve done a few hundred now

I use an old file with leather back glued on to hand sand

G0JKvHE.jpg
 
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