Kitchen Knives question - honest opinions needed

[Daniel Koster]

How do you guys feel about custom kitchen knives?

Seems some customers really love 'em...but most are happy with off-the-shelf fare.


Do you feel that if it's a custom kitchen knife it's too pricey/nice to use?


If so, what features would you want it to have in order to use it?



I'm not terribly interested in making collector pieces...though I have, and will do it. I'm just more interested in getting knives that folks will actually use in the kitchen.

What would such a set of knives need to be for you?

Cheaper?

Dishwasher safe?

Stainless steel only?

Thinner stock?


Let me know....inquiring MIND (me) wants to know. :thumbup:

Dan

 

[Darteres]

As a long-time cook and beginning chef, I can give you a run-down of what I want in a kitchen knife.

When I'm at the restaurant, we use (I forget the brand) a commercial grade, cheap stainless French chef's knife with an 8 in blade about 2 mm thick at the spine with a flat grind + secondary bevel and bright orange plastic handles. The handles make it stupid easy to notice the knife wherever it happens to be if it's not put back. This is so much of a benefit, I cannot begin to describe how wonderful it is. Not everyone puts things back where they belong. This knife is used along with a 3in paring knife of the same material with a very thin, flexible blade and only an edge bevel for all the other cutting. These knives are cheap and dull quickly, but that's all the management will buy for us.

When I'm at home or catering an event, I use my own knives, which until recently where inexpensive, but well-sharpened henckels. I haven't had the chance to own a custom kitchen knife, but I would like to. I just recently was gifted a calphalon katana series santoku style chef's knife, and it is amazing. Not terribly expensive, good looking, scary sharp and easy to maintain. If you get a chance to look at them, the handle design is well-implemented. Most chef's grasp the blade just before where it meets with the handle, and this one is off-set to the right to make it more comfortable and easy to grasp.

What I would like in a kitchen knife/knife set? My ideal set would be 3 or 4 knives. I would like a chef's knife with a fairly flat edge for the length of the blade and not much belly towards the tip, for slicing and chopping meat and veggies. Something maybe 3-4 mm thick with a flat grind/secondary bevel or a chisel grind like Japanese chef's knives. There wouldn't need to be very much or any flexibility in this blade, as it would need to be thick/sturdy enough to power through say...a chickens ribcage without having to grab a cleaver, but generally wouldn't run into anything too damaging or be used as such too often. Mostly for meat and veggies, balanced about 3/4 of an inch before the handle where the thumb and finger would grasp the edge. I also happen to like the Japanese D style handle, but Wustoff makes some that are incredibly comfortable.

The second knife would be a paring/boning knife for fine work. A slightly flexible blade that is fairly thin with a sharp point. A full-size handle would be nice, as I typically don't grasp the blade on a paring knife. I curl the first two joints of my fingers around the handle with the edge pointing towards my thumb and use my thumb to guide whatever I'm peeling, slicing towards the edge. The blade would only need to be 3 in or so.

The third knife would be long, thin and flexible. This would be for slicing, be it a roast or Christmas turkey. The push-pull sawing action as you slice through meats needs to be done in as few strokes as possible, so something around 10 inches is preferable to me, with a very thin blade. There would be no need for belly or a tip on this knife. It could be around 1 in wide and grasped at the handle.

If I had an option for a 4th knife, it would either be a fillet knife or a serrated bread knife, but to be honest, I use a pair of those cheap forever-sharp knives since I don't fillet often and the bread knife works wonderful.

I don't like serrated kitchen knives. I've never had a problem just keeping my knives sharp and honing them before each use. When I'm at home, I never walk away from my knives (I have a 4 year old boy who thinks he is the chef). I also never put my knives in the dishwasher. This kills the handle and is potentially dangerous. I keep mine on a magnetic strip where they are placed immediately after being used, cleaned and dried. Stainless is not necessary, I like the look of high carbon blades. Pretty is not necessary either, my knives are meant to be used, not looked at. Good balance, easy of maintenance, long life...these are what is best in life. (sorry, Conan referrence)

edit: damascus with a hamon like would be freaking amazing though...)

 

[cybrok]

Honestly.

I have a Japanese Gyuto. I paid around 80$ for it (mid range). I wouldn't go over 100$ at the moment.

A custom kitchen knife is not something I actually consider. Kitchen knives is another world. I would prefer to buy from a company that does only kitchen knives. The steel mix of Japanese blades comes from far.

Your knives are great Dan. But for the kitchen, I'll pass. But I have to admit that if you can make kitchen knives as good as Japaneses, I'll think again.

 

[hollowdweller]

I'm all good on knives but would be interested if you made some sort of a small thin paring, peeling slicing type knife.:thumbup:

 

[Daniel Koster]

Funny you should mention that....:foot:



http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531860

 

[superduty truck]

I use Lamson Sharp Knives for my kitchen needs. Forged and handles really well in the role needed. Not cheap, but nothing of quality is.

 

[WA Martin]

I'm not a chef and don't cook as often as I like but I do cook squash and potatoes etc when I do have time and I also like to trim meat very closely as I hate fatty meat.

I have a couple Old Hickory butcher knives I really like. I'd like to have some really nice kitchen knives (your Mater, maybe your new paring, Harners two knife sets) but I know I'm paying for the quality and workmanship. If I buy a knife at the store I rarely pay more than $20.

I think I like your Mater because it reminds me of an Old Hickory knife. Plus, it comes in a left-handed model!

 

[hollowdweller]

Funny you should mention that....:foot:



http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531860

You b*stard! You want all my money

 

[Keith_H]

that is too funny! I think that that needs a matching chefs knife

 

[ras]

What I was thinking was a matching paring knife in the forward (vice reverse) format with something other than a sheepsfoot edge -- clippoint, maybe spearpoint. Something like the upper and lower in this pic. That one is the Henckels 3" Chef Paring Knife.

Add a 4' -5" plain edge steak knife, a 6" utility knife, a 7" chefs knife and an 8" carving knife, and I'd have all I needed S30V of course.

The point of course is that of all my knives, the ones in the kitchen are used the most -- maybe not the hardest (unless GF is doing the cutting in which case anything goes), but they're used every day. Why have cheap beaters with an unknown steel in the kitchen and a high end knife in mint condition in your collection?

 

[sparklehorse]

I recently got one of your 240mm gyutos from Stefan on knifeforums, who bought it from some one [adam] in charlotte who originally ordered it from you. Since I'm the 3rd owner now, the knife is not without controversy. I want to love the knife, its warm feel and sound [carbon] and beatuiful handle.

I don't NOT want to keep the knife, but wish that it's profile and geometry and thickness were not quite as thick which would give the knife more performance in terms of it's draw slicing, ability to cut thin even slices from vegetables, which with it's relatively flat blade profile makes it very awkward to do.

I own many knives and have been on your list for 6 months for a 6 in french, and don't seem to be moving up the list at all or you don't update it. When I saw this one, jumped on it. All things considered, I don't expect one knife to do everything, and I have thin japanese gyutos and chefs and a bob kramer and a david boye and shun..but for sure if your knife was a bit thinner it might be more of an "all around". At the same time I like the heft, its solid feel. The 2nd owner had the edge re-profiled at japanese chefs knifes to a wider bevel and re-profiled for more surface contact towards the 2/3rds back of the knife, which he said didn't sit properly.

For dicing, push cutting and rocking motion dicing the knife is great. for thin draw slicing it's challenging to have consistent width slices of whatever. I would love to hear what your thoughts were for the knife design. Somewhere in between your design and a japanese design lives an incredible custom knife, with a carbon blade, your design and some heft that I would pay $300 for. Regardless, proud to own a DK knife and can't wait to the get the frenchie.

 

[Snow]

I like your kitchen knives and plan on getting some when the time is right. As others have said, kitchen knives are used frequently, so they should be nice quality. I think it's an added bonus that Koster knives aren't available at just any department store.

 

[never too sharp]

Hey Dan, I would LOVE to have some custom kitchen knives. My kitchen knives get alot of use, and I wouldn't mind spending a little more coin on them. I don't use cheapies, but they're not high-end. My block is currently filled with Henkles 6 & 10 inch chefs, Wustof sheepsfoot parer, Global 8 inch french-style chef's, a discontinued forged Sabatier santoku, and four Serco (Japanese knives bought on clearance from a food service catalog) knives to fill in the blanks.

The 6 inch chef's get's the most use. The sheepsfoot is excellent for paring, but not much else - you have to be right on the edge of the board to chop or slice. It is ground thin, though, so it takes an awesome edge quickly and cuts well. The global is great - light, balanced, and the sharpest out of the box i've ever had. The Sabatier is unneccesarily thick, and it's clunky, and usually only comes out of the block for a sharpening. It's just too heavy. The Serco's were an unbelievable value. They averaged $10 a piece, and they rival the Henckles in fit, finish (if you dont mind red handles), and edge holding.

To answer your questions:

Cheaper? Not neccesarily, but wouldn't be a bad thing.

Dishwasher safe? Absolutly not, but hygenic is good.

Stainless? Yes. Too many foods will discolor carbon steel. I like a good patina, but not on my kitchen knives. I would rather not have any reactions between the steel and my food.

Thinner stock? On some models, perhaps (slicer, parer), but on any knife that is going to chop, I prefer a spine thick enough to provide some rigidity.


I can't wait to see what comes of this, I may need another knife block.

 

[Allen Newberry]

I would love to have a nice big santoku with an active hamon and a nicely figured wood handle. So you already produce what I would like to have. On the commercial side I like the Kershaw Shun line. I lost out on a couple auctions for one of those and never ended up with one. Currently I mainly use a cheap santoku and a cheap chef's knife.

Allen

 

[Blackwind]

Personally I'm a big fan of your Santoku. I don't own one yet but plan to.

I have had the discussion several times about how much I spend on custom knifes and other manufactured blades both fixed and folders. The one place I feel I REALLY need to spend some money on quality knives is in the kitchen. I spend a lot of time there and love to cook. As my Bushcraft thread and pictures show! LOL

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525794

While I do own a decent set (Henckels)...I think there is a lot to be said for a great custom knife for all around use. I recently bought my girlfriend a cheap set of Pure Komachi by Kai and I have to admit...they work great for El Cheapos! LOL

I would love to own 1-3 very nice kitchen knives from the likes of Koster.Not much into French blades and lean more towards Japanese design.

 

[spyken]

stainless, thin and with a slight belly. I like the Japanese ones for the extraordinary sharpness. I think it's hard to pay more than $150 for a good kitchen knife because the Japanese are churning out a lot of good blades for under that.

I believe the knifeforums project blade was one of the best...pity I didn't have cash then.

 

[sierra11b]

I'd vote for a lot of the poll options. I've used some knives around the $100-$200 (and over) range on the line all the time, some stainless, some carbon. Have some less expensive knives for various uses too. Some are old culinary school issue knives.

 

[morgoth]

I use cheaper knives like these Tramontinas
They do a good job the steel is ok and they are well balanced

 

[myright]

I use Henkels and keep them well sharpened. They were relatively inexpensive and do the trick. I do not put them in the dishwasher.

The only thing I don't like is the Santoku that came with it. I chop a lot of vegetables and find the blade to be a little bit to light for me. I think that'll be the only knife I upgrade in the set. My wife routinely uses these knives and she does not share my same opinion of knives so is less likely to take care of them like a I would - so an expensive set of knives is really a waste for us.

 

[Daniel Koster]

Great comments so far, guys - keep 'em coming!!!

:thumbup:






Here's the reason I'm asking:

I'm considering a production run of a general purpose kitchen knife (or 2 ) - but only if the cost can be kept low enough to make it an every-day-user.

I'll still be making custom kitchen knives in both carbon and stainless steels.

I don't think I can match "infomercial prices"...:foot:....but I can definitely get the cost down there....perhaps even under $100...no promises yet.


I'm strongly considering 13C26 or 19C27 stainless. These are fine-grain stainless steels that take an edge like a carbon steel...yet have a high chromium percentage. Another possibility is CPM154.

:thumbup: