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  1. DustinY

    DustinY KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    715
    Dec 29, 2016

    I thought your rules seemed fair, the unique or cool part of it is, you can participate regardless of what you’ve done in the past, but be critical at the end, if you don’t think it’s a product that is worth entering, you just don’t send it. You can compete against yourself to attempt to make something worth submitting, and then decide at the end. Still would like rules and an official post.
     
    FredyCro likes this.
  2. DustinY

    DustinY KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    715
    Dec 29, 2016
    Worded this wrong, not - “don’t send it” but “don’t submit it”. You just don’t submit to be apart of it, even though you tried, and you can post a thread looking for advice & critiques on the struggles.
     
  3. Hengelo_77

    Hengelo_77 Basic Member Basic Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Ok it seems I've misunderstood or misread the shipping rules.
    If I participate I'll pay the shipping to the person recieving my knife, but whoever sends me a knife will pay shipping to me.

    I may participate, but I can't promiss it yet. There's a baby on it's way here :)
     
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  4. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    The following is general info for anyone planning a KITH:

    The same reasons as the ones Willie mentioned are why I stopped running the KITHs.

    Everyone has his/her ideas, and everyone wants to change things. The KITHs ran pretty much flawlessly with the rules we were using. Then people wanted to have a THIS or THAT type KITH. Some went OK and others had only a few folks ended up finishing a knife. There are other issues most don't think about.

    Shipping overseas is a fact of life if you run an open KITH on a worldwide site like Shop Talk. I always put that in the rules. If someone doesn't want to ship overseas, they don't have to join the KITH.

    As far as very new makers joining, there have been Newbie KITHs before, THey generally were for makers with less tan 20 knives or less than 1 year experience. As always, it is an honor system. In the past I have had people who joined p that I contacted about their not being ready for the KITH. I usually said that they should stay in the KITH and when the knife was done send me and some other folk photos for an honest review. Only once did I ever say it probably should not be in he KITH. I was very surprised with the others as they were quite good knives.

    A far as a specific type KITh where the knife type is per-determined (like the recent kitchen knife KITH), that is OK, but must be made clear right from the start. In a regular KITH the knife style and shape are up to the maker. We have usually given an approximate value range to shoot for. This prevents someone making a throwing knife, or a RR spike knife and entering it in a KITH filled with fully finished knives of higher quality. It isn't about the actual value as much as trying to keep the KITH apples to apples.
     
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  5. FredyCro

    FredyCro

    539
    Jan 11, 2019
    Congrats Hengelo! I agree with Dustin on the part regarding submiting a knife or not.
    On the other hand I also don't understand the 10 knife rule since it might not be an objective measure of someones abilities. You have all seen here that there are guys who achieve on their first knife what others don't in 2 years.
    If someone is good with their hands, has a sense for design/drawing and has been handling (power)tools before doing a knife the results may vary a lot..
    Anyhow, I wouldn't submit a knife if not happy with finish and performance regardless being my first or my 100th knife.
    Can someone make a pole for this and vote ONLY if you plan on taking part of what should be a newbie kith. If if turns out to be a disaster, it will be just for the ones that decided to participate on their own will.
     
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  6. Hengelo_77

    Hengelo_77 Basic Member Basic Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    I like the idea of a KITH being open to any type of knife.
    That way you can make what you like best or feel most comfortabe with. Usualy that means higher quality.
    Also I like the idea of recieving a sort of knife I don't make myself.
     
    DustinY likes this.
  7. Sam Dean

    Sam Dean Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 3, 2012
    OK, 1 KITH under the belt makes me an expert now, right? :Do_O

    Seriously though, I really enjoyed the process of the kitchen knife KITH (but I do wish there were more participants). I liked making a knife that I knew was going to be critiqued, handled and (hopefully) used by another knife maker. I freaking loved getting another makers knife in my own hands for nothing more than the investment of my own time and material!! And, I liked having some basic guidelines (rules), so all participants could be on a level playing field. Even restricting the material to 15N20 was a great idea. So, what's the harm with throwing a few guidelines in so us noobs have just a little guidance on what is expected?

    The folks that volunteer to run these things, and the moderators here, take on a very thankless job. If they want to post some "rules and requirements" for participation, in an effort to make this job a little easier, then so be it. I really hope there can be some compromise, thanks for the thankless job, and continuation of the Bladeforums KITH's.
     
  8. DustinY

    DustinY KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    715
    Dec 29, 2016
    I agree with literally all of this.
     
  9. AlaskanHunter

    AlaskanHunter

    306
    Nov 23, 2013
    If this happens, I'd love to join in. As far as rules, we should probably stick quite closely to the set that Stacy posted. There are good reasons that that set has become the "standard" of BF KITHs. There may be a few who dislike this structure, but you can't please everyone. So if the standard rules (with the caveat that this is aimed towards newer makers) are amenable to the majority, I'd love to see this go ahead. Just my 2 cents (which is probably worth less since you saw it on the internet).
    Winter KITHs fit my schedule well, so if this happens, I'm in!
     
    DustinY likes this.
  10. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    the 10 knife rule isn’t a rule, but a general guideline, which was explained in a subsequent post. This was a guideline explained to me before I joined my first Kith. I’ve made hundreds of knives now, and I doubt any of the first 10 would be worth submitting. I had built multiple musical instruments, painted cars, rebuilt engines etc already. Knifemaking has some very specialized skills and some of the process requires very specialized equipment, such as heat treating, where newer makers often spend the least amount of attention. Machinists tend to jump in and make great knives from the get go. It’s individualized. Poor handle to blade ratio, too thick before sharpening, once I got my Rc tester, some were in the mid 40s. It seriously takes a while to get the hang of things. Once I got my heat treat oven, engineered oil, and Rc tester, I haven’t had a blade failure since.

    This was my first Kith submission, and I was terrified it wasn’t good enough. Stacy has it.


    [​IMG]100_2175 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr
     
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  11. dirtyphil

    dirtyphil

    165
    Mar 19, 2014
    If this is geared towards noobs then I’d be in...id think the whole idea of sending in a knife is, for me, to learn from my mistakes...I ain’t sending in a 500$ knife, maybe not even a hundo. Being a noob I’d expect the same, I’d think that someone sending in a 500$ knife shoulda waited til there was a KITH geared towards more experienced makers. I’m babbling...
     
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  12. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I’m in an odd mood, so I’ll post this here. More experienced guys will get why. Basically you don’t know what you don’t know.


    In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.[1]

    As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
     
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  13. dirtyphil

    dirtyphil

    165
    Mar 19, 2014
    .....peculiar.....
     
  14. dirtyphil

    dirtyphil

    165
    Mar 19, 2014
    A years-long effort to reproduce more than 100 psychology studies across three leading journals paints a pretty dismal picture. When re-tested by independent research psychologists, the conclusions of more than 60 studies on personality, relationships, learning, and memory, turned out to be far less whelming. Strongly significant findings often became weaker, while weakly significant findings became non-existent.
     
  15. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    Look , I will be equally happy if I get knife from rail road spike as with best Bowie knife Nick Wheeler ever made . Value and quality are of no importance here , at least the way I see KITH . I believe that each participant will make every effort to make knife as best he can . This should be for fun and more participants more fun . . . . . . That s all I say ...........
     
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  16. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    oh, one of those guys....

    this is why I’m not allowing myself to be berated with people who don’t know what thry don’t know. A hundred dollar knife is possibly too rich? Seriously?
     
  17. dirtyphil

    dirtyphil

    165
    Mar 19, 2014
    Berated!??! I know I don’t have a million posts on here and I don’t know you but apparently you didn’t get my sarcasm or need to thicken up that skin. I’m not gonna grab my toys and decide not to play either. If it’s noob geared then so be it. If it’s a 10
    Blade min then I’ll abide. This isn’t going how I imagined I guess. Hopefully we get it back on track...as for “not knowing what I don’t know...” Ima 23 yr nurse, I know more of the real than many....
     
  18. A. Matthews

    A. Matthews Gold Member Gold Member

    41
    Aug 4, 2017
    If this happens and has some basic ground rules as outlined above, I’d be in. I’d be more inclined to participate in a KITH with some general guidelines and expectations personally.
     
    DustinY likes this.
  19. DustinY

    DustinY KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    715
    Dec 29, 2016
    I think the general advice is pretty good, was really hoping Willie would run it (seemed to really understand it), so far it's hear-say if this is happening.
     
  20. Cushing H.

    Cushing H. Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 3, 2019
    I somewhat am hesitant to jump into the lions den ... but here goes:

    There will always be differences of opinion on how to do anything. It is easy for others to "complain" about how something is being done when they are not responsible for it. My suggestion, for what it is worth, is this:
    If someone is willing to step forward to organize, then that person should make a good faith effort to learn from the past - conform as appropriate, change rules as seems necessary. Publish the rules. If a critical number of people are willing to conform and participate, good. If someone is not ... they should simply say "no" and not comment/complain/etc. (unless they are willing to take on the chore). END. OF. STORY.

    if enough people take part, good. If not .... no KITH.

    You will never (my own experience) avoid these differences of opinion: so my response is somewhat like this: do it my way and shut up, or take responsibility yourself and do it your way, in which case I will conform or shut up (somewhat paraphrased ... but trying to make it obvious/in-your-face-obvious).
     
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