Kizer Tangram availability

[Hackenslash]

Hey Kizer, just saw you on Facebook promoting the new Tangram online store at...Aliexpress? I really like the Tangrams that I’ve owned but can’t really recommend them or Kizer anymore if you’re actively tangled up with that cesspool of clones and counterfeits. Maybe reconsider? Comments?

 

[craytab]

It seems like a detrimental choice. Kizer constantly got credit for a Chinese company that was doing it right when the vast majority were not. That has now ended.

 

[stonproject]

Hey Kizer, just saw you on Facebook promoting the new Tangram online store at...Aliexpress? I really like the Tangrams that I’ve owned but can’t really recommend them or Kizer anymore if you’re actively tangled up with that cesspool of clones and counterfeits. Maybe reconsider? Comments?

I see it as them introducing high quality, legitimate products to a market saturated with clones. If they can get their product into the hands of those that normally buy clones they may sway these people out of buying fake knives. They're also expanding their products to places that may not be able to get Kizer knives otherwise. Just my perspective.

 

[craytab]

I see it as them introducing high quality, legitimate products to a market saturated with clones. If they can get their product into the hands of those that normally buy clones they may sway these people out of buying fake knives. They're also expanding their products to places that may not be able to get Kizer knives otherwise. Just my perspective.

Those knives are already on the market sold by legitimate dealers. The only reason kizer would let a dealer that deals in theft sell their products is greed and they don't care about cloning.

 

[Speadge]

Hey Kizer, just saw you on Facebook promoting the new Tangram online store at...Aliexpress? I really like the Tangrams that I’ve owned but can’t really recommend them or Kizer anymore if you’re actively tangled up with that cesspool of clones and counterfeits. Maybe reconsider? Comments?

How's that an argument at all? It's silly ...
US isn't whole world and US knives distributors and sellers don't ship worldwide mostly and those rare which do charge crazy shipping costs which usually add 30% to knife price, so don't be so egocentric. The rest of us wants those knives too. I surely appreciate Kizer and Tangram aliexpress stores which ships internationally.

I saw some nice Tangram deals at amazon and guess what ... No shipping to EU.
Beside that it's not like we don't see at ebay clones and counterfeits. Do you boycott ebay knife stores too?

 

[Hackenslash]

How's that an argument at all? It's silly ...
US isn't whole world and US knives distributors and sellers don't ship worldwide mostly and those rare which do charge crazy shipping costs which usually add 30% to knife price, so don't be so egocentric. The rest of us wants those knives too. I surely appreciate Kizer and Tangram aliexpress stores which ships internationally.

I'll be as egocentric as I choose to be
But seriously, I understand the impact that Aliexpress has on the global markets and the paucity of US based sellers who ship internationally. Wouldn't you, as a knife enthusiast who's just joined a knife enthusiast website, rather support a EU based authorized retailer rather than a global clearing house for counterfeits and clones of more than just knives? I can appreciate you wanting the knives, but at what price? What impact will Kizer's association with Aliexpress have on their collaborations with designers around the world? Aliexpress is the go-to source for clones of those designer's knives! That's a bad look. Try to think big picture for the hobby in general and not the immediate cost out of your pocket. I find your argument to be silly and self-centered.

Do you boycott ebay knife stores too?

Yes, I don't buy knives on eBay unless I know the seller. As you spend time here you'll find most knife enthusiasts will have the same opinion and share it whenever asked. Shun eBay, Aliexpress and sometimes Amazon. Rather, frequent authorized re-sellers to support the hobby and minimize the spread of clones and counterfeits. If possible, buy from Blade Forums supporting re-sellers as it helps keep this site and it's resources available to the knife world. It's kind of a Blade Forums mantra.

The Tangram knives are great. I have two. Probably due to this marketing decision, I won't have any more. Check out the CIVIVI line of knives from WE. A little more expensive than Tangram but quite a bit nicer. The Forum Rep for WE is actually based in the EU.

We're in a golden age of great, budget knives. There are too many viable choices to be forced to purchase from outlets that ultimately damage the hobby.

Welcome to Blade Forums. I hope you enjoy your time here.

 

[Speadge]

Dear Hackenslash, things you described maybe work in States, but world is much wider ...

What EU based retailers? EU is union of sovereign independent countries, each with own laws, own monetary policy, different value added tax and some even with own currency. Knives you buy in USA are in most EU countries much more expensive. If available at all. With shipping fee I pay for most knives often 100% or more than you. And I live in a country with much lower living standard (lower wages, etc..).

Last time I checked there's no Kizer, Reate, We Knife, etc ... local dealer. I picked up I think my best and most affordable EU options and purchased several Kizer knives from Czech dealer (nice guy btw.) and of course still overpaid them, the same as I overpaid We Knife knives from Austrian official dealer, but that's it. Many knives aren't even available here around.
Do you know how aliexpress work at all? It's just selling platform, the same as ebay. Some sellers are honest, the other sell counterfeits as on every selling platforms, but what this had to do with honest sellers which sell original products? You want to punish Kizer knife store why exactly? Did they rip you off? Do they sell counterfeited products? No. They just picked another platform which allow them to reach international buyers and sell knives also to countries where their distribution network does not exist.
You said that you don't buy from ebay also. But then added, "unless I know the seller". So may we assume that if you would know some kind guy from Kizer company who sell knives in their official aliexpress store you wouldn't play this crusade against Kizer?

I have several WE Knife knives (which I overpaid them the same as most other knives, except Kizer's bought via their aliexpress store) but I don't see myself buying Civivi anytime soon although some models design looks really nice to me. Reason for this is as stated above ... price to get them to my country. I can get decent Kizer VG10 Vanguard knife for the price of one 9Cr18MoV Civivi. Or even less. Or two Tangram knives. All this thanks to Kizer aliexpress store. Store which sell only their own original products.

Just because you take some things for granted, this doesn't mean that it apply for whole world. And I find your argument to be silly and self-centered. The day that Kizer opened aliexpress store was the day when many, incuding me, was able to get Kizer knife for same price / under same conditions as you finally. So while you may not like it, I as a knife enthusiast and collector, can only thank them to make it possible also for me and the rest of the world.

 

[Hackenslash]

Dear Hackenslash, things you described maybe work in States, but world is much wider ...

What EU based retailers? EU is union of sovereign independent countries, each with own laws, own monetary policy, different value added tax and some even with own currency. Knives you buy in USA are in most EU countries much more expensive. If available at all. With shipping fee I pay for most knives often 100% or more than you. And I live in a country with much lower living standard (lower wages, etc..).

Last time I checked there's no Kizer, Reate, We Knife, etc ... local dealer. I picked up I think my best and most affordable EU options and purchased several Kizer knives from Czech dealer (nice guy btw.) and of course still overpaid them, the same as I overpaid We Knife knives from Austrian official dealer, but that's it. Many knives aren't even available here around.
Do you know how aliexpress work at all? It's just selling platform, the same as ebay. Some sellers are honest, the other sell counterfeits as on every selling platforms, but what this had to do with honest sellers which sell original products? You want to punish Kizer knife store why exactly? Did they rip you off? Do they sell counterfeited products? No. They just picked another platform which allow them to reach international buyers and sell knives also to countries where their distribution network does not exist.
You said that you don't buy from ebay also. But then added, "unless I know the seller". So may we assume that if you would know some kind guy from Kizer company who sell knives in their official aliexpress store you wouldn't play this crusade against Kizer?

I have several WE Knife knives (which I overpaid them the same as most other knives, except Kizer's bought via their aliexpress store) but I don't see myself buying Civivi anytime soon although some models design looks really nice to me. Reason for this is as stated above ... price to get them to my country. I can get decent Kizer VG10 Vanguard knife for the price of one 9Cr18MoV Civivi. Or even less. Or two Tangram knives. All this thanks to Kizer aliexpress store. Store which sell only their own original products.

Just because you take some things for granted, this doesn't mean that it apply for whole world. And I find your argument to be silly and self-centered. The day that Kizer opened aliexpress store was the day when many, incuding me, was able to get Kizer knife for same price / under same conditions as you finally. So while you may not like it, I as a knife enthusiast and collector, can only thank them to make it possible also for me and the rest of the world.

Ummm...I think you continue to confuse my concern over a business practice with your own wallet problems. You seem to have missed the entire problem with Aliexpress and boil everything back to what your personal cost and ease of availability. That's not what this is about at all. There are lots of BF members who are based in the EU and can probably help you find vendors in your area, you just need to spend the time here to read and learn.

Before you go entirely off the rails with the concept that I have a vendetta against Kizer, spend some time reading and figure out who one of the most vocal supporters of that brand has been for years here on BF.

I'll lay it out one more time. Hopefully you can see that it has nothing to do with American egocentrism:

I, and many other knife enthusiasts, have a little problem with Kizer using a distribution mode that's the largest source of counterfeit knives in the world. That's not an "American" viewpoint, that's a Knife Knut viewpoint. Your personal situation doesn't and can't change that. It's not even part of the counterfeit picture. I'm sorry that you have to overpay for knives and have fewer choices, but that doesn't factor into the fight to slow the spread of counterfeits. There are lots of Knife Knuts who struggle with VAT and import costs and lack of availability but still choose to shun Aliexpress because of the damage it does to innovation, design, development, profitability and health in the global knife industry.

Oh, and when I say I buy from eBay sellers that "I know", it's not at all what you assume. I meant that I'm aware of certain reputable knife dealers who also have an eBay store. From time to time I'll accumulate some eBay Bucks from other business I do there. Sometimes I'll purchase a knife from the eBay outlet of a known retailer. That's all I meant. Because of my concern about clones and counterfeits, that's the only circumstance under which I buy knives on eBay. As I do less and less business on eBay, I don't anticipate any knife purchases there in 2019. I never recommend The River or The Bay as a source to seek out knives.

But, you know, to eBay's credit they at least put on a show of being concerned about counterfeits. Amazon too. Aliexpress openly promotes and flaunts it.

So, you're in favor of Aliexpress because of the positive impact it has on your personal expenses.
I'm against Aliexpress because of the negative impact it has on the knife industry as a whole.

Who looks more self-centered?

 

[craytab]

Dear Hackenslash, things you described maybe work in States, but world is much wider ...

What EU based retailers? EU is union of sovereign independent countries, each with own laws, own monetary policy, different value added tax and some even with own currency. Knives you buy in USA are in most EU countries much more expensive. If available at all. With shipping fee I pay for most knives often 100% or more than you. And I live in a country with much lower living standard (lower wages, etc..).

Last time I checked there's no Kizer, Reate, We Knife, etc ... local dealer. I picked up I think my best and most affordable EU options and purchased several Kizer knives from Czech dealer (nice guy btw.) and of course still overpaid them, the same as I overpaid We Knife knives from Austrian official dealer, but that's it. Many knives aren't even available here around.
Do you know how aliexpress work at all? It's just selling platform, the same as ebay. Some sellers are honest, the other sell counterfeits as on every selling platforms, but what this had to do with honest sellers which sell original products? You want to punish Kizer knife store why exactly? Did they rip you off? Do they sell counterfeited products? No. They just picked another platform which allow them to reach international buyers and sell knives also to countries where their distribution network does not exist.
You said that you don't buy from ebay also. But then added, "unless I know the seller". So may we assume that if you would know some kind guy from Kizer company who sell knives in their official aliexpress store you wouldn't play this crusade against Kizer?

I have several WE Knife knives (which I overpaid them the same as most other knives, except Kizer's bought via their aliexpress store) but I don't see myself buying Civivi anytime soon although some models design looks really nice to me. Reason for this is as stated above ... price to get them to my country. I can get decent Kizer VG10 Vanguard knife for the price of one 9Cr18MoV Civivi. Or even less. Or two Tangram knives. All this thanks to Kizer aliexpress store. Store which sell only their own original products.

Just because you take some things for granted, this doesn't mean that it apply for whole world. And I find your argument to be silly and self-centered. The day that Kizer opened aliexpress store was the day when many, incuding me, was able to get Kizer knife for same price / under same conditions as you finally. So while you may not like it, I as a knife enthusiast and collector, can only thank them to make it possible also for me and the rest of the world.

I think you'll find the "it's too expensive" argument to be a poor one when justifying the support of known counterfeit dealers.

 

[Speadge]

I think you'll find the "it's too expensive" argument to be a poor one when justifying the support of known counterfeit dealers.

I am not sure if you know what you're talking at all. That's an argument you made it up unless you're claiming that supporting Kizer official store at aliexpress is support of known counterfeit dealers. Can you show me some proof that official Kizer store I am buying from is known counterfeit dealer?

 

[Speadge]

Who looks more self-centered?

Well, that's easy question. You're the one who opened thread with "comments request", but already decided upfront what comments you want to read. I can't help you here.
Live in your bubble as narrow-minded bigot and play your little sad private crusade as much as you want while I am waiting excited Lancer 2 and green Sunburst (to finally complete my sunburst collection) shipment from Kizer aliexpress store. Oh, and Eliminator 2 is about to be ordered from David (just noticed that official .cz distributor have very good price for this nice knife).

I hope that sun will shine for you again and you will find some love for Kizer again.
Till then have a nice day!

 

[craytab]

That's an argument you made it up unless you're claiming that supporting Kizer official store is support of known counterfeit dealers. Can you show me some proof that official Kizer store I am buying from is known counterfeit dealer?

You can't be serious. The dealer kizer has chosen to get in bed with is a well known counterfeit dealer.

Sorry getting good knives sucks for you, but that in no way makes supporting a counterfeit dealer okay.

 

[Speadge]

You can't be serious. The dealer kizer has chosen to get in bed with is a well known counterfeit dealer.

Sorry getting good knives sucks for you, but that in no way makes supporting a counterfeit dealer okay.

You did not answer my question. Can you show me some proof that official Kizer store I am buying from is known counterfeit dealer? Because that's what you initially posted and this statement seems to me as a blatant lie.
Thanks for your sympathy, tho.

 

[craytab]

I am not sure if you know what you're talking at all. That's an argument you made it up unless you're claiming that supporting Kizer official store at aliexpress is support of known counterfeit dealers. Can you show me some proof that official Kizer store I am buying from is known counterfeit dealer?

Do you think liarexpress lets them sell on their website for free? Kizer pays to sell their knives on a dealer website that is one of the biggest places to get counterfeits on the web. Shame on kizer.

 

[craytab]

You did not answer my question. Can you show me some proof that official Kizer store I am buying from is known counterfeit dealer? Because that's what you initially posted and this statement seems to me as a blatant lie.
Thanks for your sympathy, tho.

Kizer sells their knives on a known counterfeit distributor website. Fact.

 

[Speadge]

Don't be overdramatic. Like said, aliexpress is just selling platform. Just like ebay as example. Expecting from Chinese company to not offer own products via domestic selling platform is just silly.
While it's true that most clones and counterfeits come from China nowaday and because of that we can realisticly expect to see them much more on chinese selling platforms than on lets say ebay and amazon (+ that young China market will need some years to adapt western selling ethichs and address this matter properly), this has nothing to do with honest seller who sell legal product here. And no matter what you say, Kizer store DO NOT sell clones and counterfeits.
While you may be dissaponted from some higher point of view, that's just how things are. Kizer employes need put food on the table too. I am glad they did it (from a reasons explained above). You two aren't. I think that we all can live with that, so I am done here.

 

[craytab]

Don't be overdramatic. Like said, aliexpress is just selling platform. Just like ebay as example. Expecting from Chinese company to not sell own products via domestic selling platform is just silly.
While it's true that most clones and counterfeits come from China nowaday and because of that we can realisticly expect to see them much more on chinese selling platforms than on lets say ebay and amazon (+ that young China market will need some years to adapt western selling ethichs and address this matter properly), this has nothing to do with honest seller who sell legal product here. And no matter what you say, Kizer store DO NOT sell clones and counterfeits.
While you may be dissaponted from some higher point of view, that's just how things are. Kizer employes need put food on the table too. I am glad they did it (from a reasons explained above). You two aren't. I think that we all can live with that, so I am done here.

Good. Be done here promoting a counterfeit dealer. This community doesn't support that.

 

[Speadge]

Official aliexpress Kizer store does not sell counterfeit products. They sell only own legal products and your claim is blatant lie.

 

[craytab]

Official aliexpress Kizer store does not sell counterfeit products. They sell only own legal products and your claim is blatant lie.

Official scamexpress that sells counterfeits is being paid by kizer. Facts are facts.

 

[Speadge]

After reading all this I am pretty sure that you don't have ebay account and you're avoiding honest US based sellers with store at ebay. Because you know ... just as on aliexpress there's a lot of clones and counterfeits too. Not as much as on aliexpress (explained above) but still ... a lot.
Oh wait ... /hypocrisy alert