Recommendation? KMG MOAG or TW90

Fallbrook Forge

Fallbrook Forge

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Jan 1, 2006
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I've been reading threads on grinders for a couple weeks now, used that custom search link like a madman!

I'm looking at the KMG MOAG package or the TW90. KMG MOAG at $5200 and the TW90 at $3600 plus shipping, and at 240 lbs shipping probably isn't cheap.
https://beaumontmetalworks.com/product/moag/

http://www.traviswuertz.com/?product=tw-90-knife-grinder

I've seen lots of people mention the KMG isn't direct drive, but no one ever says why that should matter. I don't know why it should and would love to know!

The MOAG comes with a 3HP VFD, so what's bad about the belt drive?

I'll acknowledge that having to put the grinder together is a PITA, however it is one that *I* am willing to deal with, if it's for the better deal overall.

The TW90 tracking adjustment seems to be much better.

One of the main themes I saw throughout all the threads was people claiming that the KMG comes with less than the TW90 and that by the time you add all the stuff to the KMG it's the same price as the TW90. Well looking at the MOAG kit it comes with everything.

Granted it is $1,600 MORE than the TW90 before shipping is entered in, rotary platen, 10" wheel, 12" wheel, 14" wheel, small wheels from 5/8" through 2" all that makes up the difference if not more. And the KMG kit comes with more than just that stuff. I added up all the extras the KMG comes with and I think it came out to around $4000 in accessories.

So it SEEMS TO ME that argument is from before the MOAG package was a thing.

TW90 has the horizontal advantage, which I KNOW would be useful.




Anyways, if you had a $5000 grinder budget which one would you buy and why? If there's a comparable grinder that I've missed chime in with that as well!

I've made a couple handfuls of knives with just an angle grinder and files, I went to the ABS intro to bladesmithing course, I love this stuff!

Ok, I tried posting a picture of one of my knives but apparently I’m not able to.

Cheers!
Tyler
 
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The belt drive introduces vibration to the system that a direct drive doesn’t. Also the belt drive allows a place for the power of the motor to be used up in slippage and friction.

Direct drive is just better.

The TW90 is awesome, I’ve never used the MOAG, so I can’t compare. The TW90 is hands down the best grinder I’ve ever used.

Of course I’ve only used a couple, but the TW90 was way better than the others. Super stable, perfect tracking, awesome work rest, compact design.
 
I bought a 2HP VFD KMG about 4 years ago and have been reasonably satisfied with it. I was upgrading from a 2X42 so it was a vast improvement over that. I read about all the short comings so when I went to purchase a second grinder I went with Northridge. It took forever to get one but last month I finally received mine. It's a 2HP VFD direct drive unit and it is hands down better than my KMG. Zero vibration, the tracking is far superior. It doesn't stall with any amount of pressure that I apply. It's just better.
I still use my KMG but only for handle shaping. Any metal grinding gets done on the Northridge.
I personally would never buy another KMG because there are quite a few machines out there now that are so much better.
I considered the TW-90 but ended up going with Northridge because the 1.5" KMG tooling arms that I have fit the Northridge. If I understand correctly, wouldn't have fit the TW-90 tooling arm receivers, which I believe are 1.25".
The thing I find perplexing is that Beaumont Metal Works knows about all the limitations it has and improvements that other grinder companies have come out with yet has done nothing to address their issues. That is unfortunate for them.
 
gruntinhusaybah said:
$5200
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@Tyler , why you don t make one yourself ? Frame is easy and cheap to make , rest is motor , electronic for motor and different wheels ......they don t cost fortune to buy them ??? If I decide to spend that kind of money on grinder I can make grinder for which one even Solingen will beg me to sell them . . . .
 
Natlek said:
@Tyler , why you don t make one yourself ? Frame is easy and cheap to make , rest is motor , electronic for motor and different wheels ......they don t cost fortune to buy them ??? If I decide to spend that kind of money on grinder I can make grinder for which one even Solingen will beg me to sell them . . . .
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You have to realize that time is now a very difficult thing to come by in the USA. I grew up in a rural area and in those areas we can find the parts to do a build a bit easier as well as it might be worth your time to build your own tools and you are more likely to have space and tools. But if you live in the suburbs and hold down a 2000 hour plus job time is difficult. It can also be much more difficult to acquire materials. You often have to go to industrial areas where you pay a premium for small orders. Also the cost benefit changes. In my neighborhood the average house tax is $10,000 to 12,000 a year. I just put that there as a metric that in some areas the cost to time ratio may make $5,000 for the right tools up front a good bargain.

To the OP your budget is high enough that you might be able to get into Hardcore range. I have a Esteem grinder and really like it. If I buy another I will get a TW-90. That horizontal option and the well thought out tooling rest is a huge draw.
 
gruntinhusaybah said:
So it SEEMS TO ME that argument is from before the MOAG package was a thing.
Click to expand...

Nope, not at all - it's the basic grinder itself and belt drive vs direct drive. I built a KMG clone with 3 speed belt drive and couldn't imagine why anybody would need more. I finally built a direct drive version of the KMG clone and WOW!! What a difference in smooth. Travis's TW-90 is a top of line grinder, and with a $5K+ budget, toss in a few other options and go with the TW-90. You don't really need all the difference size contact wheels.

There are other grinders that flip horizontal (which you really do want), and one that sells in the $4500 range and it's really slick! Smaller footprint of any of the 2X72 grinders. I "might" even consider it over the TW-90. You wouldn't go wrong with either of them.

Good luck and have fun (sorry I can't remember the manuf)
 
gruntinhusaybah said:
I've been reading threads on grinders for a couple weeks now, used that custom search link like a madman!

I'm looking at the KMG MOAG package or the TW90. KMG MOAG at $5200 and the TW90 at $3600 plus shipping, and at 240 lbs shipping probably isn't cheap.
https://beaumontmetalworks.com/product/moag/

http://www.traviswuertz.com/?product=tw-90-knife-grinder

I've seen lots of people mention the KMG isn't direct drive, but no one ever says why that should matter. I don't know why it should and would love to know!

The MOAG comes with a 3HP VFD, so what's bad about the belt drive?

I'll acknowledge that having to put the grinder together is a PITA, however it is one that *I* am willing to deal with, if it's for the better deal overall.

The TW90 tracking adjustment seems to be much better.

One of the main themes I saw throughout all the threads was people claiming that the KMG comes with less than the TW90 and that by the time you add all the stuff to the KMG it's the same price as the TW90. Well looking at the MOAG kit it comes with everything.

Granted it is $1,600 MORE than the TW90 before shipping is entered in, rotary platen, 10" wheel, 12" wheel, 14" wheel, small wheels from 5/8" through 2" all that makes up the difference if not more. And the KMG kit comes with more than just that stuff. I added up all the extras the KMG comes with and I think it came out to around $4000 in accessories.

So it SEEMS TO ME that argument is from before the MOAG package was a thing.

TW90 has the horizontal advantage, which I KNOW would be useful.




Anyways, if you had a $5000 grinder budget which one would you buy and why? If there's a comparable grinder that I've missed chime in with that as well!

I've made a couple handfuls of knives with just an angle grinder and files, I went to the ABS intro to bladesmithing course, I love this stuff!

Ok, I tried posting a picture of one of my knives but apparently I’m not able to.

Cheers!
Tyler
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If you have not already, give Esteem grinders a look.
Give Brett a call, he is a great guy and the website is not up to date with all the new options.
 
The "MOAG" is all inclusive however there are items you may never need. Since you don't have another 2X72 to compare it against I think it's a marketing ploy to clear OLD INVENTORY that is taxed at years end for every item on the shelf. How often will you switch between 10" 12" 14" contact wheels? How often will you switch from flat platen and rotary platen(which is a nice addition) for what you currently build?

My KMG is the step child grinder in the shop these days set up for small wheel grinding only because I can run it slow for those small wheel bearings. With the clone KMG I built with tilt and the TW-90 I do all my major work. With a $5200 budget I would say TW-90 with surface grinder attachment will make any type knife you choose to build. MOAG is a grab bag of stuff that Beaumont has collecting dust and need to clear it out!
 
I have never used the tw90, and respect travis whole heartedly. But can speak about the Northridge tool 2x72. Absolutely awesome.
 
Kali4nia said:
I have never used the tw90, and respect travis whole heartedly. But can speak about the Northridge tool 2x72. Absolutely awesome.
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The ONE thing that turned me off to the Northridge was the $500 for a accessory tilting stand which is obviously an after thought to the original design. I agree the Northridge is a very fine quality grinder, but the tilt could have been built in and I can't see the value at that high accessory price. YMMV
 
The KMG was top of the line at one time but is just old tech these days. The TW-90 was/is a huge step forward in knife making.

I was in the same position as you 5 years ago and ended up getting the TW-90 and I have no regrets.

There are a A LOT of choices these days in 2x72 grinders but the TW-90 is still at or near the top.

$5k to spend? KMG wouldn't even make this list.
 
I agree, with $5K budget a KMG wouldn't get a glance from me. Here's the horizontal grinder (and vertical) I was talking about above. The Hardcore grinder:

I saw one of these at Blade this year and it's SLICK!!! Not sure it's any better than the TW-90, but it sure is slick and works good vertical or horizontal.
 
A.McPherson said:
The belt drive introduces vibration to the system that a direct drive doesn’t. Also the belt drive allows a place for the power of the motor to be used up in slippage and friction.

Direct drive is just better.
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Awesome, thank you!

P.Brewster said:
TW-90 without a doubt. $5k is a pro-level budget, and I consider the TW-90 to be the minimum level of quality and function for a pro-level machine.
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So what else would you recommend?


Natlek said:
@Tyler , why you don t make one yourself ? Frame is easy and cheap to make , rest is motor , electronic for motor and different wheels ......they don t cost fortune to buy them ??? If I decide to spend that kind of money on grinder I can make grinder for which one even Solingen will beg me to sell them . . . .
Click to expand...

Making one would cost ME, where I am, almost as much as just buying one in just the materials, then I wouldn’t have a functional grinder for who knows how long.
I’m well aware of all the people out there who have built a grinder from scrap yard materials and a motor from an electronics repair place, I don’t have access to any of that within at least a couple hundred miles.
I’d end up spending 2-3x my budget and gobs of time to get a functional grinder. No thank you.


Ok, so the KMG package was luring me in with all the goodies. But I’d rather put my money on the better machine and get more goodies when I can.

Let’s see if I’m tracking so far:
Tw90 is smoother, better tracking, better tracking adjustment, horizontal and from what I understand they are ready to go out of the box.

Thanks for all the intelligent replies so far guys!

I’ll check out the hardcore grinders!

Keep it comin!
 
Don't forget tooling rest. I am finding that I use mine more and more. That's one area where the TW-90 really shines. If it wasn't for the rest I would say that it's super hard to beat the Esteem for the money. I bought mine with 3 tooling arms, 2 HP VFD, platten and 8" wheel and small wheel holder for something in the $2500 shipped. That would leave you with $2700 to buy a couple more tooling rest, a larger wheel, more tooling arms for running radius platens on, radius platens and chillers, a rotary platen and $1200 worth if belts.
I will tell you to save some money for belts. You will go through them faster than you would expect. My average order is over $500 and I'm still going as a hobby. Also you are probably going to want at minimum something like a Atlas forge to do some simple heat treatment at home. My plan was to send out all of the higher alloys for heat treatment. It was a great plan except that I didn't do it and ended up buying a oven. With the oven comes foil and a cryogenic setup ect. Your budget was about the same as mine. I had set enough aside for a KMG so I had some leftover from my Esteem but bigtime underestimated how much extra stuff I needed. If I had to do it again I would do it about the same way but started with a file jig about 5 years sooner. Putting the bevels on your knife is only one stage. Most of the hand work is the same.
 
Check out the Outlaw grinder. You can get it loaded up for a lot less than 5k. I would get that then the OBM surface grinder attachment. And still be under 5k.
 
been using a KMG for 10-12 years my gear is 5 tool arms 10" 5" wheels a small wheel with 2 size smalls and 2 platen arms one flat and the other with nates 48" platen. been thinking aobut getting the direct motor mount but then i need a different motor then i have. for me i think im looking at the cheaper way and to but a 2nd KMG chassis. the grinder i have now has a 1750rpm motor. i woudl build the 2nd grinder with a 3500rpm and i can run it with my VFD. other shop tools i have just as a why im upgrading the way i am. mini mill, bridgeport mill, wood saw metal saw wood lathe metal lathe buffer kiln ln dewar quench plates and parks 50 quench oil. since i have most the tooling i need for the KMG i want a grinder that i can swap arms and having a high and low speed set of grinders will be great and i think i can add that 2nd grinder for a bit over a grand
 
Ken H> said:
I agree, with $5K budget a KMG wouldn't get a glance from me. Here's the horizontal grinder (and vertical) I was talking about above. The Hardcore grinder:

I saw one of these at Blade this year and it's SLICK!!! Not sure it's any better than the TW-90, but it sure is slick and works good vertical or horizontal.
Click to expand...

Not to get too off topic, but I've always thought those work rests on that Maximixer grinder looked somewhat cheap and flimsy, especially with what looks like plastic(?) gears used for adjusting the angle on them, or is that just me?

I remember some year ago seeing a video of a maker from another country reviewing one of these which he owned and I can't remember exactly how it went, but I was (am) left with the impression that there are better/more practical designs for knifemakers like the TW-90 etc. I think there was something about certain sections of the grinder lacking in accessibility (like the platen or the contact wheel etc.) when in the vertical position due to the motor or stand that made it kinda tricky to grind blades, or something along those lines. It might be great as a dedicated horizontal grinder for the shop. Just my 2 cents :)

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
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