Knife Defense: Part 2

hso

Joined
Dec 16, 1998
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So the second installment of the Thursday knife session is over and while I'm still not in 100% agreement with the instructor I've got some better news to report.

After going over various classes of knives that you might encounter we worked on how to use or defend from small pocket knives. The instructor told the class that small knives are best used to cut instead of stab with. While we all know that a small blade dipped into the belly of a thigh or forearm muscle and twisted out can stop a less-than-murderous attacker the folks that are taking this class are, for the most part, without any training. As such it's easier to teach them to drag the edge across the chest and belly of an assailant than to try to hit a moving arm or leg. So far I'm ok with what we covered. The problem came when it got down to practice.

To get a solid slash across the body (or neck/face) with a small blade you've got to get inside the guard of the opponent. This requires them to conceal the small knife they've got and deny the one thing that these peoples' brains should be screaming for them to do - RUN. Instead of doing repetitve drils of concealing, sidestepping and stepping inside, the instructor started them off after a single demonstration. I'll grant that she and her assistant went from pair to pair and made corrections, but this was after sevearl minutes of "sparring" had gone on. (I seem to be the last persone that she comes to and that may color my impression of the tour to personally instruct the others that she makes.) Several minutes of doing the wrong thing isn't as easily corrected as starting off doing the right thing.

I worked with one of her students getting ready to test for his black belt. A much bigger person, 1/2 foot taller, he was easier to work with. We went from the simple slash the body to more effective arm and thigh wringing cuts as well as face and nect cuts from inside. I found that a bigger opponent made it easier for me to get inside than it would have been with someone closer to my own size. It also made me work on defending against a much bigger opponent with more reach and mass. Overall, good experience.

While I am complaining about the teaching technique I did get something out of this session. I hadn't realy spent much time thinking about small blade techniques specifically. This gave me the opportunity to work on them.

I'll report on the subsequent sessions.

Mike
 
Interesting.

How "small" is small?

And what catagory of blade design?

Conventional edge? Serration? Combination?

If this instructor is teaching that in general small knives are better to slash with than to thrust I have to offer such an approach is inaccurate, at best.

I thought your point about doing something wrong the first few times then having someone there for perhaps 15 seconds trying to "correct" you was right on.

Looking forward to your next report.
 
Small is SAK ~2.5 in. blade length.

Categories were, small pocket knife, upswept, clip point, dagger, and heavy chopper. This neglected the standard chef's knife, hawkbill, and utility knives which could be encountered on the street.

More next week.
 
Great observations!
I do not understand why teaching slashing over thrusting with small knives was considered "better"? As mentioned before, there are many techniques for creating SERIOUS wounds with even the smallest of knives. In some of my experiments, we used 2 1/2 in. blades to produce insertions of over 4-5 in. of penetration. Now we tried to reproduce on "dummies" the density of a human trunk and included clothing ranging from a T-shirt to a leather jacket. We pierced ALL of them very well. We also used a serrated edge Delica to surprising great effect on the leather jacket (we basically shredded it) with combo attacks (meaning thrusts into slashes and vice-versa). The only thing missing in these particular experiments were the presence on fluids and hard obstacles (ie: ribs), that hamper doing real techniques with live bladework (this we covered elsewhere such as dressing down animals and some valuable experiences at butcher shops). But, this here is something that must be taken into account when training. Small or full sized knives that do not really offer sure grips that counter the presence of liquid on the grip (even sweat..:) ) or prevent slippage during resistance against a powerful thrust or slash, is quite dangerous. I like all of my fingers, and have enough scars already, thank you very much.
At any rate. The issue of a small knife NOT being able to thrust effectively is a NON-issue.
KSN
 
Agree. And again those who train and experiment (hence prove or disprove for the benefit of their own experience and knowledge) offer the far better side of things as opposed to dojo technicians of dubious motivation or explanation.

Spyderco's HARPY style knives (steel and synthetic) bodies are extremely efficient in close and offer devestating penetration / slashes / cuts. They are not used to thrust in the conventional sense due to blade design. However, they are powerful when it comes to hooking / lifiting / dragging upon insertion.

Again, the instructor of the program described appears to be offering a bias as opposed to anything else. Bias in the martial arts and training? Say it ain't so!:rolleyes:
 
Hookbills are interesting and can be used in a number of unexpected ways; even the Spyderco Civilian which has a more radical hook than the harpy can be used vertically in a downward ripping thrust into soft tissue, hooking itself in - then ripping out; or horizontally to the inside or outside; resulting in a horrific wound chanel.

Not quite a straight-thrust, yet not quite a simple slash.

Very much like kukhuris, which can be used to thrust with practice, they just have "special needs."
 
Is it better to learn to knife fight or to learn to fight with (or without) a knife? It is my belief that if you alter the way you fight(train) because you or your opponent has a weapon, you are needlessly complicating the matter. The exception of course is at a distance; (30 feet or more) use your gun! Once again I am no expert, but I am about to be 50yrs old and hopefully have picked up a few things along the way.
 
fish, there was a juicy debate in Prac Tac about that topic. Don't have the link though.

Re: Hook/hawkbills. I haven't played as much as I'd like with them. Personally, I wouldn't want to use it on the ground with the BG on top of me. Though I have heard (perhaps rumor/myth) that an LEO on his back used hawkbill to stop his attacker.
 
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