Knife VS Knife

That is a good point, Survivor. What I liked about the Riddle is attacks were made from any of the concievable lines of motion, both in reverse, hammer, sabre, or whatever grip. Once the lines of attack are explored, then the technique can be weighed to see if a ceratin line or method will beat it. The lines in fencing cover most concievable angles, both in defense and offense. Once those are mastered, they transfer to the empty hand, stick, bowie, empty gun, whatever. It's no wonder that much of Bruce Lee's techniques come from fencing.
 
It's funny you guys talk about fencing. After reading Bill Bagwell's book I recently became interested in fencing. Also, about a year ago I tore my right pectoral where it attaches to the shoulder, and I am still feeling very serious effects from this. When I hold my arm up in a fencing posture, I find that my injury feels it a lot. I came to the conclusion that I should probably learn fencing, both to help heal my injury, as well as to better learn how to use a knife. When I was in the Viktor de Thours Academy last week, Mr. De Thours told me that he will soon be teaching fencing in his school. So it sounds like (hopefully) a match made in Heaven. I am really looking forward to the training, which I start today. Thanks again for the best wishes on this.
 
:cool:

Dear Sir:

In regards to your question, Knife vrs. Knife I would like to add a few comments.

First off what we usually see in the knife magazines and video training tapes is usually warmed up JKD stuff. When viewing the magazines or videos it always shows some, Master of Who Won or Lost holding his knife in some limped wristed manner. Especally some of the stuff that has been produced lately on the two most experienced merchants of self defense. I will be good and not mention any names.
Having been in 4 knife fights I can testify that gettin into a knife fight is frighting, scary, hard to deal with and the only thing that saved my bacon was years upon years of full contact knifeboxing.

In 1998 I and two of my friend were attacked by two members of a Youth Gang. You know the types, just a couple of friendly young boys earning extra pocket money by stuffing chrome plated .25 pistols in some innocents face. Then again some of the more experienced pieces of **** like the ones who attacked us used ultitity knives. Same tools that killed over 5000 people on 9-11.

We had just left a training session in Cincinatti at John Benners
school, Tactical Defense Insitute, (TDI)I was a guest representing KA-BAR Knives as their instructor. We had been training for 2 days and went downtown to eat.

After dinner we left back to the hotel when I spotted the two happy-go-lucky gents coming out of a parking garage accross the street. In less that 10 seconds I went from being well fed to having my heart in my throat and about to **** my pants. I could not breath right, my heart was racing, the hair on my neck stood straight up, my eyes were as big as saucers, I wanted to start shaking like a dog shitting razor blades and all I could smell was refer and fear. The one punk came right towards me and shoved me into a parking meter. The other fine specimne of humanity pushed my buddy and then started swinging. Both of these gents were from the school of "Lets scream some Ebonics which no white people understands anyway" However I understood clearly that they were looking for an easy target and they didnt find one!

As soon as I hit the meter I spun off to the left and bounced against a parked car while the young man demostrated his love for me by throwing a full power slash at my head. I yelled to him in verbal Bando that if you want a knife fight you just picked the wrong person to get into one with. I must of been feeling brave at this point. Ha.

Remember this all happened in 10-30 seconds!

What next? I kicked at him to gain time and pulled my automatic Smith & Wesson out of my pocket. You know the one that goes "thunk" when fully open and locked. I went to stance and instantly threw a thrust to his eyes to see what he had. The cat threw up his hands to cover his face and I knew then that I was dealing with an untrained scumbag, not a real merchant of death. Once again I shot the thrust towards his eyes I returned to stance. I fainted a step and shot another full power thrust to his stomach, missing on purpose to set up a gut ripping K1 stab. When I returned the cut up and back down and faked him out I again thrust towards his stomach and stepped into his face. This freaked him out and the fight was on. He slashed at me and I stepped back away from the blade. Any one of you ever been in a knife fight before? Take my advise and dont try it.
So his knife flew by and I attempted a jab to his gut, however I slammed into his God damn knife blade! Ouch. But because of 14 years of full contact Bando training and knife boxing I just let the pain slip out of the way and slammed a full power return blocking cut. The big ole fat Smith slid up his arm from elbow to wrist! Yee Ha. What a beatifull cut. In a way now that I look back on that attack it felt good to actually use my training and I could actually see the blade split him wide open.

That piece of wasted sperm took off running accross the street. Perp # 2 had by buddy down and was kicking the living **** out of him. I ran up and gave him a full kick to the neck and threw him off. Once up and on his feet he (my buddy) took the fight to the gang member and beat his ass down to the street. I helped just a little.

We took off to the hotel and got me the hell out of Dodge. I drove back home (3.5 hrs.) with a McDonalds coffee cup, napkins and my shoe string holding my finger together.

Reports from the law enforcemet the next day says there was a puddle of blood in the garage as big as a car. Perhaps I was fortunate to rid society from that fine expample of humanity.

So where do you go or what do you do to learn about knive vrs. knife? My recommendation is to search out a real hard core fighting instructor. Forget the glamor boys in Tactical Knife or Paladin Press, those cats have never been in a fist fight let alone survived combat, law enforcement duty or military training. Dont get me wrong there are compentent trainers in knife but they are few and far between. Forget all that silly Asain crap also, cause if you aint hurt after leaving a training session you are not learning about full contact.

You may also contact me or KA-BAR KNIVES about taking a training session in a fighting session that is based on reality not "Smoke on the Water"

KA-BAR
 
I'd love to get some training but I am stuck in Australia.:(

During my life I had 3 encounters with knives twice I won as a managed to get hold of the opponents arm as thay were retching fore there knives the fired time I was attacked by a machete so I garbed a shovel and nocked the machete out of the idiots hand.:mad:
 
Greetings,
Anyone who is interested in knife vs. knife discussions is invited to join in at the International Blade Fighters Guild Forum found at knifefighting.com
AMOK!
Prof Tom Sotis
 
Ad,

You mentioned legal limits on knives in one of your posts. I'm not familiar with your exact area in Calif. However, as I understand it, state law places no limits on the length of folders (which can be carried concealed). On the other hand, fixed blades cannot be carried concealed, even if they are very short.

In Los Angeles there are city and county ordinances with similar provisions which prohibit one from "openly carrying" a knife with a blade of three or more inches. There is some debate over whether that includes concealed carry when you are in a public place. Cops usually say yes, some knife owners argue no.

Some of the guys in the knife law section have all the cites if you ever want to research the topic.
 
KA BAR,

Or whomever you are...very nice post, and interesting story. Glad you survived it okay. I don't disagree with some of your assessments in there at all. Only three things that I hafta bring up that I feel are in bad form:

1) You diss EVERYONE in TK and Paladin Press. Granted, there is a mixed bag, from both ends of the tactical spectrum. Yes, there are some frauds, but there are some real good, legitimate folks in there, too.

2) You diss them in order to advertise your own training. When I see a guy build up himself at the expense of his competition, it leaves a bad taste. Especially when the guy who is doing all that talking about the "real deal" posts anonymously. Who the hell are you and why should anybody train with you? 4 knife fights -- cool. That makes you an expert fer shure. Or someone with really poor awareness...;) Which is it? From the tone of your posts (and maybe I misread the tone), it sounds like you stopped learning because you now consider yourself an expert. How long ago did you stop learning? And why did it take four knife fights, instead of one, for you to get it -- if you even did get it?

3)You have the bad manners to advertise your training in another instructor's forum. Gaack!

KA BAR -- sounds like you have a lot of good stuff to offer, brother, and I hope you continue sharing. Just try to have some tact in your tactics, willya? ;)


Over and Out,

Brian.
 
DancesWithKnives: Thanks for the advice. I am not really up on all the local laws concerning folders, as I usually carry a small handgun and be damned with the laws that say I can't do so (I'm a lawyer, but I'm not stupid).

I am aware of the prohibition on a concealed fixed blade. (Which is too bad because I prefer fixed blades) For several years now I have carried, sporadically, an Endura (which my dad bought me for my birthday some years back). At the time he bought it, the salesman advised him that 4" was the legal limit, thus, I believe, the Endura is something like a 3 7/8" blade. But the salesman may not have known what the hell he was talking about. I have seen in the courthouses where the cops will measure a folder and, if the blade is undr 2" I believe, they will let the guy go through.

Anyway, I should probably research the laws here thoroughly, although it won't make a difference to me personally ;) . I've carried for years and I'll go on doing so. F*** the Diane Feinsteins of this world who think they know what's best for us (while she goes on with her armed bodyguards and has a CCW herself). I better stop here before I start ranting and raving. Take care, and thanks again.
 
:cool:

Mr. Jones

It doesnt surprize me that you reacted the way you did to my posts. I wanted some results and recived them.
Perhaps if you do not want honest opinions on your site then think about why you put it up in the first place. Some of us do speak with firm convictions.
As far as why I said what I did, it was to express the recent discontent I hear from students who have and are training in the knife fighting world. Having trained with 4 knife fighting instructors the last 8 months, I can speak from experience that each had something to offer but the majority of what they teach is based on form not function. I asked all the instructors when was the last time you used what you taught. Only one answered that question. It was Hock.
One instructor that does impress me greatly is Hock Hochiem. I travelled to Michigan to write a story on Hock and to intorduce some new Tactical knives. During the last 19 years, Hock is the only instructor other that Maung Gyi who can do what he teaches with a knife.
My first knife fight was when I was 8 in my backyard with my older cousin. We are hillbillys and it was just common to fist fight, hunt, fish, ride horses and get into scrapes. He slashed me with an old MK3, that one of our uncles had laying around in his barn.
My last knife fight was the one I wrote about.
However since my first teaching gig at Soldier of Fortune Convention 1998 I have sparred a little over 3000 rounds in various full contact fighting with my students.
Concerning my abilities and when did I last recieve instruction? I have been training in knife fighting for the last 43 years. I am currently 49. My first instructor was my great uncle who was a combat shotgunner in WWI. He was taught the fine art of knife by some of his-our families Civil War vets. We had 18 members total who fought in the great war. My most famous cousin helped steal the train, General, he recieved a Medal of Honor for his courage, skill and honor. I still to this day train in boxing, kickboxing, knifeboxing, stick fighting, NaBan, shotgun, pistol, cane, fist stick and a host of other disciplines. At the moment I am a student of two instructors, one is a 67 yr. old Pukulan Pentjak silit, Bukti Negara-Serak Guru master and the other is a 64 yr. old boxing-kickboxing master. I trained under Dr. Maung Gyi in the American Bando Association as his student for 9 years, and under his masters for 15 years total. I guess I did not graduate from the school of tact, I was to busy graudating from the School of Warfare South Vietnam.
Unlike other so called instructors or martial art masters, I can do what I say! And last but no least the orginal question was, where do I go to get knife fighting instruction? My answer is again go to one that has the moxy, skill, fortitude, constitution, courage, discipline, training and knowledge to actually teach what they demostrate. Anyone can set up shop in the local mall and teach Tie on the Quon Doe and they do a good job of servicing their market. However there are a few of us old timers who have been there done that who like to teach the real deal, not some watered down JKD stuff that one can find while Smoking on the Water!
I will not be on your site again, and you can be greatly assured that if I insulted you, my honest and sincere appology is due.
KA-BAR


:D
 
Ka-Bar,

...I don't believe that anyone is suggesting you leave or not to speak your mind, so feel free to visit the forum again.

However, I support Brian's remarks about your post and would add that you are probably new to BladeForums (4 posts in your profile), where new members are like water seeking their own level in terms of their posting style.

Anyway...stick around, enjoy, and just try to watch the slams on others.


Thanks,
 
Ka-Bar,

Firstly, I do hope you stay around, as I said above, and as Andy has said in his post. I should apologize for questioning your skill level and abilities. I have no idea what your skill level is, although you highlighted a lot more in your second post. So, please accept my apology. I was mainly a bit miffed because you advertised your training here, in another instructor's forum -- and this instructor, CJ Caracci, is exactly the real deal that you and I BOTH agree is very rare, and much needed, in today's instructor community.

Secondly, I think you're right on the money about the amount of instructors out there who are billing themselves as experts when they've only danced the dojo ballet and nothing more. They annoy me as much as you. I just don't lump ALL of them together because they appear in TK or Paladin or some other place. There actually exist one or two out there that ARE what they say they are. But you are right -- most of them are demonstrating their expertise in marketing more than martial craft of any type. There is SO much watered-down crap out there, very true.

You have not insulted me personally at all -- I was pointing out a couple things and hoping to get you to be more specific in your generalizations, that's all. I welcome your frank tone of discussion, and really do hope you stay around Bladeforums.com.

Best,

Brian.
 
I had not read thus far until I saw Brian Jones had posted again. I am sorry Brian you just have to stop making trouble, some things go without saying and if you have to, you are probably reaching someone for whom it really doesn't matter anyway.
But thanks for the thought and the effort!
 
I've been told I'm incorrigible before...
What the hell does that word mean anyway? ;)

I'll stop making trouble now. :D

Brian.
 
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