Knives and Boy Scouts still go together!

C

CountyRat

Joined
May 7, 2009
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I just finished reading some posts that claim that Boy Scouts of America forbids scouts to carry knives. This old scouter wants to assure the gentle reader that Boy Scouts and knives still go together like, well, like stuff that goes together. If anyone has a boy in Scouting and has been told that scouts may not carry, please ask them to show you the document that supports that claim (they won't, because it does not exist) and then ask the following questions. Then, please let me know what they have to say for themselves. I can hardly wait to hear them sputter!:

Boy Scouts of America has not banned knives (I have no experience with Scouting in other countries). To any scout leader who thinks their scouts should not carry knives (in circumstances in which it is legal to do so) I have a few simple questions:

- Why is proper knife handling taught in the current Boy Scout Handbook?

- Why does BSA award the Totin' Chip to scouts who have successfully demonstrated their ability to carry, care for, and use knives, axes, and saws properly (see the BSA Website, http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/ad...ges/totin.aspx. And, while you are in the BSA.org site, type knife into the search box and see how many times BSA suggests or requires knives and knife skills).

- If BSA bans knives, why is a pocketknife included on BSA's "Essential Ten" list for hiking and camping, right along with a first aid kit, fire-starting material, and other tools essential to the self-reliant life of a scout?

- If BSA bans knives, how can any scout ever earn Second Class rank (see http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Second_Class_Rank, requirement 2, c, or Fishing Merit Badge, requirement 9 - see http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Fishing, to site only two examples.)

Then, after they finish squirming, invite them to go with you to the nearest Boy Scouts of America Counsel office, and buy one of the official Boy Scout knives that BSA offers so that no scout will ever be without a good blade! Buy a few and hand them out to your son and his qualified scout buddies if you have a mind to. They will remember you for the rest of their lives, as all scouts remember the first time a man put a knife in their hand because he knew that he could trust a scout to use a powerful tool constructively.

Shame on these wimpmasters! How do they answer the questions I have posed? These wimpmasters need to re-think what scouting is about. It is about a life of adventure, confidence based on accomplishment, responsible self-reliance, and earned mutual respect. Anything less is not scouting!
 
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I agree :-) even though I have never been a scout, when i think of scouts i think of a knife. I reprofiled and re-handled my dads old boy scout axe, and i believe he had a knife to go with it too.
 
As an Eagle Scout I couldn't agree more. I too have heard of this "knife ban" from certain troops. Even they admit that BSA HQ doesn't have a policy but "this is how I/we run my/our troop." A very old story on a related note. Back in the mid 80s I was working at Scout camp as a counselor when a troop was turned away for "failure to maintain proper uniforms." This was a relatively new inner-city troop with members who apparently could not afford BSA uniforms. The entire troop, including the leaders, were wearing US Army surplus OD fatigues with all the BSA insignia in the proper manner. The uniforms were well cared for and looked sharp. They were certainly more uniform in appearance than many scouts that week. None the less, powers that be did not allow them to attend Scout camp. About the only time I was ever embarassed to be a Scout. Sorry to derail the thread. My point being that little fiefdoms is not necessarily a new occurence in BSA.
 
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Here's my Girl Scout knife from when I was in.
so75v4.jpg
 
It was garden variety paranoia. The kid didn't understand that when a troop meets at a place where knives are not allowed, they have to ban knives for all meetings taking place there.

The troop better be banning knives at meetings if they only meet at school, ditto if it's a private property whose owner disapprove of knives.
 
I commented in the other thread, and I pretty much fit the description (at that time) of not having all of my info correct, on several points. I wasn't "sputtering" :p but I was definitely humbled when corrected. :o (I knew BSA policy; it was school district policy I was unclear on.)

I lead a Pack locally, and the elementary school where we meet has, of course, banned all "sharp & pointy objects". (We are very strictly bound by the school district policies, as far as location.) I carry my Remington Scout knife, and I'm asked by Scouts, parents, and staff occasionally to help out with some cutting chore, because they know I have a knife. My policy is that at least the adults all should have a pocket knife, and I'll give them one if they don't. Most parents are neutral on the subject.

I'm cleaning up some SAK Classics to give to the boys on our summer campout next month, and that's when (I hope) they'll all earn their chip.

thx - cpr
 
Sep said:
It was garden variety paranoia. The kid didn't understand that when a troop meets at a place where knives are not allowed, they have to ban knives for all meetings taking place there.

The troop better be banning knives at meetings if they only meet at school, ditto if it's a private property whose owner disapprove of knives.
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Sep: You are absolutely correct, and thank you for your important point. Scouts are taught to obey all laws, including those that set conditions on when and where a knife is permitted, and adult leaders should make sure that they always obey those laws. That is why I wrote about scouts, "carry[ing] knives (in circumstances in which it is legal to do so)." A good scout is also kind: he is sensitive to the fealings of others, and careful not to frighten or offend others by behavior that could be misunderstood as threatening.

Jill: I did not mean to leave out the ladies, but rather, to restrict myself to that in which I have had personnal experience. I never was a girl scout (couldn't pass the physical) but I hope that they still teach the women of the future self-sufficiency skills, including blade craft.

Eygor: If that is how some adults are leading their troops (and I know that you are correct in saying so) then they are wrong and should be told so. I would pull my son out of a troop in which a wimpmaster made up restrictions like that (which saddly, does happen). I feel for you re: your Summer camp story. It is very sad when otherwise decent men make such foolish decissions. I hope those fine scouts were not discouraged, and stayed in scouting.

To all others, thank you for taking the time to contribute. I did not think anyone would bother reading this, and I am humbled that you gave up the time to do so. I hope this encourages parents to challenge any wimpmaster who tries to run his own, personnal kingdom with rules that keep scouts from being scouts! Any adult who does not trust these excellent young men-in-the-making with a legal, conscientiously carried pocket knife has no business in Scout leadership.
 
I couldn't agree more.
I am an Eagle scout myself but have been out of touch with scouting due to school/life for the last few years, but have heard from relatives and friends in local troops where there are some interesting rules on knives that are just barely different from an all out ban.
I heard of one in which the knives were being held by the leaders until camping trips. I just wonder how a scout is expected to get through a weekend camping with a standard scout knife he has no experience with. Not to mention what happens when he has to sharpen it? I know it took me years of practice to put a good edge down, most of that time not during camping trips
 
orca8589 said:
I commented in the other thread, and I pretty much fit the description (at that time) of not having all of my info correct, on several points. I wasn't "sputtering" :p but I was definitely humbled when corrected. :o (I knew BSA policy; it was school district policy I was unclear on.)

I lead a Pack locally, and the elementary school where we meet has, of course, banned all "sharp & pointy objects". (We are very strictly bound by the school district policies, as far as location.) I carry my Remington Scout knife, and I'm asked by Scouts, parents, and staff occasionally to help out with some cutting chore, because they know I have a knife. My policy is that at least the adults all should have a pocket knife, and I'll give them one if they don't. Most parents are neutral on the subject.

I'm cleaning up some SAK Classics to give to the boys on our summer campout next month, and that's when (I hope) they'll all earn their chip.

thx - cpr
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You are certainly not "sputtering," Orca. You write very well. Of course, when scouts meet, they must repect the rights of the owners (or in your case, the administrators) of the meeting facility, including his or her right to exclude certain objects if he or she deems it wise. As for information, well, we all get our facts wrong sometimes. One of the things that I like about this forum is that my misunderstandings are often pointed out by others, which gives me a chance to rethink my arguments, or research my information. We all win.

Keep up the good work with your scouts, and thank you for making your community better by your service!
 
i have to heard of knife banns but when i heard of it it was on youtube and was a public press conference from bsa hq saying that only certain knives and listing them where banned. i thought it was faked and this supports that idea.
 
Hi CountyRat -

Just before our local Pinewood Derby, in front of all the folks, the scoutmasters gave out the pocket knife badges to the boys that earned them.

I took a picture of the event and posted here last January, but here is a pic from the ceremony -

DSC_8621.JPG


and here is a link to my post with all the pictures -

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709928

At least in central Illinois, Boy Scouts still can carry a trusty pocket knife and can earn the right the right way!

best regards -

mqqn
 
School bans on pointy objects is one reason why our scout troops meet at churches and other private property. A pocket knife is and will always be part of the ten essentials and scouting life.
 
I cannot imagine scouts without knives. I mean earning wilderness badges without knives is pretty much impossible...
 
A funny story regarding scouts and knives for those interested:

I help out with Cub Scouts for a Den of second graders. I was assisting at a den meeting one night and we were making a basic craft thing, but at one point we needed to bore holes through some thin wood (about the size of a popsicle stick).

So I pull out a folder and start boring a hole with the tip and one kid screams out in a tone you might expect would be used to alert the others that an axe wielding criminal was loose in the room, "Hey! What are you doing with that KNIFE!!"

My jaw dropped and I looked at the kid and before I could talk I noticed every other parent and kid looking at me. I shrugged my shoulders and said something along the lines of this being a scout activity, and being prepared I had a tool that was capable for the job (or something along those lines).

Before I had finished talking everyone in the room had dropped their eyes back to their work and only that kid was let looking at me. He eventually shrugged and went back to his work.

It was nice to learn I was in good company.
 
Sep said:
It was garden variety paranoia. The kid didn't understand that when a troop meets at a place where knives are not allowed, they have to ban knives for all meetings taking place there.

The troop better be banning knives at meetings if they only meet at school, ditto if it's a private property whose owner disapprove of knives.
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Most school system allow exceptions for boy scout meetings. In fact I have never talked to an administrator who did not allow an exception when asked. In the event that a school principal (whom really isn't in charge of the school after hours) were to say no, it would be wise to speak with the Assistant Super Intendant, or the Super themselves, as they are supposed to deal with community issues, which most principals are not.
 
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The rumors about scouts not being allowed to use knives came out of a rule implimented in the UK. No such rule was ever put in place in the US.
 
My nephew just graduated from the Cub Scouts (didn't realize they still had Cub Scouts) to the Boy Scouts and I gave him a Boy Scouts of America knife made by Boker that I've had tucked away for awhile.

Funny how these rumors get started (i.e. Boy Scouts ban knives) when the Boy Scouts of American Store sells knives.

The only restrictions I've seen is that some Scout Masters restrict fixed blade knives but allow folding knives.

Although not made in America, our gun club gave the local Scout Troop a couple of dozen SAK Camping knives a couple years back as prizes when they were qualifying for their Shooting Merit Badges.
 
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