"kriss" vs. "keris"

willOthewisp

willOthewisp

Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Messages
626
I'm new to the forum, & something has been bothering me. What's the deal with using the name "kriss" or "kris" to describe squiggley-looking blades? I've believed for years that such blades were called "keris." Traditionally, they're forged out of three different metals, which are basically twisted together (which is where the squiggliness comes from) & pounded more or less flat. Is it that "keris" only applies to the traditionally forged blades - "kriss" being the mangled spelling for mass-produced blades of similar shape?

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Yeah, well, people ... They're just not my bag
 
The serpentine blade aka kris, keris, keres, creese in Asia also has a European counterpart called a flamberge/flame dagger.

The name kris isn't being mangled but it's just an advertising ploy. Some companies call their wavy bladed knives, kris, snake blade, flame pattern. It's just advertising.
 
In the Malay region (Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philipines, etc) there is a traditional wavy bladed dagger commonly spelled as a "kris" in English. Since the name is translated from a language that doesn't use our familiar roman alphabet the spelling "kris" is an approximation. For many years English conventional spellings of Asian names stayed relatively stable. In the last 2 or 3 decades the Chinese and other asians got independent and critical of these English conventions. Largely out of political correctness there has been a wave of new English spellings for asian names. A typical example is that Peking is now Beijing.

The spelling of kris has always had variants. This may reflect different regional accents among Malay tribes. Kris, kriss, and creese are ones I've seen quoted for years. I suspect keris is a more PC variant. I like the name kris to describe the shape of many of the wavy blade knives since they typically are closer in shape to the kris blade design than the European flamberge swords I am familiar with. Before kriss became a common description I always called them "serpentine" blades.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 08-02-2000).]
 
When I asked people in Indonesia, I was told a "keris" is pronouced "kris", as it came from their way of spelling. "ke" can be "k", "ku", and also "ke" by different word.
Hope this helps.

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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
BTW, a "flame" blade is one in which the median ridge does not follow the undulation of the edge.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
So, is it pronounced "cris" or "crease"?

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Regards,
Gester

AKTI Member #A000190

It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.


 
gester, I say "kris" out of habit but my old Indo-Chinese friend says "crease". It'll sound a bit different in the Philippines as well.
 
'Kris' is generally accepted in Indonesia, although some ethnics do pronounce it 'crease.'
 
Hello Will - The dagger is commonly referred here in Malaysia as "keris", thats the spelling in Bahasa Malaysia.
There's no such thing as "Malay Tribes", but Malay dialects from different States in this country. Traditional "keris" or anglicised as "Kriss" are hand-made for ceremonial purposes. There are actually few craftsmen who actually forge the blades themselves. The "Keris" is often associated to "silat", a traditional form of Malay martial arts which is widely spread around the Malay archipelagos of Malaysia, Indonesia and Southern Phillipines. Perhaps I should mail you a book or something on the keris..
wink.gif


Sam

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have spydies
will travel...
 
Many thanks, samo. I saw a BBC documentary years ago on traditional Asian 'smithing. Only things I remember from it are the bits about the keris, and the bits about the samurai sword. Gotta love the BBC!

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Yeah, well, people ... They're just not my bag
 
Here's what I heard in Bali.
A keris was made to its shape to get equipped with dragon (later, serpent) power of raining. If the climate is totally dried out, a keris is drawn to be soaked into any water to summon the power to give them rain.
So a keris today is not something to carry around but to keep deep in ones home.

In Europe its shape for fire, in Asia for water ... interesting!

BTW, what was the shape of a crissknife in "Dune", made from Sandworm's tooth? Anybody has any clue?


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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
About the crysknife in Dune - since it was "made out of a sandworm tooth" I'd have to guess that it would likely be shaped much like a snake's fang, maybe a shark tooth. The first time I read the book, I pictured something with a trailing point. Of course, being a work of fiction, we'll never really know now, will we?

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Yeah, well, people ... They're just not my bag
 
willOthewisp, thanks for info. So none of us can be sure if the blade of Fremen can CUT or just thrust!

...Give me the "spice", maybe I can foresee?

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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
In Indonesia, it is called the kris. I am a collector of krises. In my humble opinion, the best pieces come from Indonesia with several distinct styles from the different islands. It is too big a subject for a post of this nature but one thing is for sure, these knives are a work of art and rarely practical for anything.
 
While the kris profile is not overly practical for utility chores, not exactly a great fillet knife, eh, it is very practical as a weapon. The kris shape allow more edge without more length. The kris shape allows a wider blade without as much weight. The kris shape tends to leave a nastier wound. And, when thrust, the curved kris shape has a remarkable ability to find its way around obstacles such as bones. So, it is a very practical profile for what it's intended for.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Will - Much obliged!
smile.gif
Speak about the "keris'" edge, this particular dagger is curved for one purpose -- penetration. Malays would call it "lok tujuh" or "seven curves". The Malaysian national archive had filmed a keris making process. Its very interesting because several types of metals were used. Now, if the dagger is drawn from its sheath, the user will have to perform a ritualistic "mengasap" or mantra chanting to appease the spirit of this particular weapon. If a keris has drawn blood, it has to be cleaned with lime and wrapped in yellow cloth. I've seen a 300-year-old keris with an ivory handle and silver sheath. Very beautiful. There are even more of these in Indonesia which you can purchase for a song. Mainly heirloom pieces.
If you are really keen, take a trip to Malaysia. I'll be glad to give you a tour to some good locations where the keris is still being forged.
biggrin.gif


Sam

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have spydies
will travel...
 
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