Krup 4116 stainless steel

W

W.T. Beck

Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
1,411
I saw an ad today for some new Cold Steel knives made from Krup 4116 stainless steel. Is this a good steel?
 
W.T. Beck said:
I saw an ad today for some new Cold Steel knives made from stainless steel. Is this a good steel?
Click to expand...

All steel is good. The question is good for what?

As Redguy pointed out, this is similar to 420HC. Buck seems to think that 420HC is a fair steel as most of their knives are made from it.

Is Krup 4116 the best for edge retention? No, not the best.

Might it make a good large blade that has good corrosion resistance and fair toughness for a stainless? Maybe.

What knife are you looking at? What do you want your blade to do?

Add:
Figure out what you want your blade to do, then think about what steel would be good for that usage

 
I demand tough steel in my blades & 420HC just dosn't cut it for me! Give me tough Okapi Carbon Steel anyday!
 
Now I'm glad I got all those old Carbon V knives from Cold Steel when I did! :D Since I'm not fishing in salt water, cleaning fish, and cutting bait now I have no need at all for stainless steel blades.
 
W.T. Beck said:
Cold Steel has several knives made in China from 4116 steel, replacing some older models that were formerly made of Carbon V.
Click to expand...

Krup 4116 compared to Carbon V is a quite different steel. A stainless steel compared to a good carbon steel. It probably works, but most miss the Carbon V. My guess is that it would be better received if it were not replacing the Carbon V.
 
You don't have to understand german just look at the composition. At .50 % C , it's not a very good blade steel !!
 
I got some 4116 Krupp knives for my takle boxes but thats where I stop. They do not seem like anything I want for any other task that I actualy use knives for.
 
Troop said:
Krupp has a steel plant in China now.
Click to expand...
1.4116
----------
C=0.42-0.55
Cr=13.8-15
Mn=1
Mo=0.45-0.60
Si=1
Va=0.10-0.15

420HC
----------
C=0.4-0.5
Cr=12-14
Mn=0.8
Mo=0.6
P=0.05
Si=1
S=0.02
V=0.18

However I doubt that China import this steel from Germany. In best case it is Krupp from China, but most likely this is Сhinese analog of this steel, more or less matching European steel by composition.

I doubt we can compare Buck 420HC with this thing, Buck has heat-treatment setup and controlled by Paul Bos.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mai
nozh2002 said:
I doubt we can compare Buck 420HC with this thing, Buck has heat-treatment setup and controlled by Paul Bos.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Point taken.

Still, it might be worthwhile to look at what knives CS uses this in. I went to their website and looked at what I could find in 4116. Nothing spectacular. The knives that one would expect edge retention in are in VG1 or AUS8. The real tough blades are SK5 or 1055. That leave some oddities in this steel. "Combat classics in Krup 4116 Stainless"? I wouldn't buy those patterns no matter what steel they were made from. All pigstickers. Used for punching holes in stuff. You could make them from 420J and they would still perform their intended function.
 
W.T. Beck said:
... Krup 4116 stainless steel. Is this a good steel?
Click to expand...

It has a very similar composition to 12C27M (has the same carbon/chromium amounts), one of the very well regarded stainless steels used by Sandvik and very popular overseas.

4116 ads a small amount of vanadium to act as a grain refiner and molybdenum to increase the secondary hardening responce. Both of these will also add slightly to wear resistance.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It has a very similar composition to 12C27M (has the same carbon/chromium amounts), one of the very well regarded stainless steels used by Sandvik and very popular overseas.

4116 ads a small amount of vanadium to act as a grain refiner and molybdenum to increase the secondary hardening responce. Both of these will also add slightly to wear resistance.

-Cliff
Click to expand...
Cliff, are you saying that 4116 is better than 12C27M as a general purpose SS blade steel? (I mean, just ballpark it.)
-Thanks
 
I found the following on the Cold Steel website. Here's what they say about Krupp 4116:

4116 is a fine grained, stainless steel made by ThyssenKrupp in Germany and is used for hygienic applications (medical devices and the pharmaceutical industry) and food processing which make it a superb material for kitchen cutlery. The balance of carbon and chromium content give it a high degree of corrosion resistance and also impressive physical characteristics of strength and edge holding. Edge retention in actual cutting tests exceeded blades made of the 420 and 440 series of stainless steels. Other alloying elements contribute to grain refinement which increase blade strength and edge toughness and also allow for a finer, sharper edge.
Click to expand...

What caught my attention is the claim:
Edge retention in actual cutting tests exceeded blades made of the 420 and 440 series of stainless steels.
Click to expand...

By "440 series" I assume they mean 440A, 440B, and 440C. So they appear to be claiming that 4116 has better edge retention than 440C !
 
W.T. Beck said:
I found the following on the Cold Steel website. Here's what they say about Krupp 4116:



What caught my attention is the claim:

By "440 series" I assume they mean 440A, 440B, and 440C. So they appear to be claiming that 4116 has better edge retention than 440C !
Click to expand...
You can't believe anything you read about their products (coming from them)... except their prices.
 
There are so many factors affecting 'edge retention' that claims of one steel over another are kind of meaningless. I believe that 420HC out-performed 440C in Buck's CATRA tests, and that is one reason why they chose that steel. I have a bunch of CS knives, including some in mystery '400 series' stainless steel, and they all cut.
 
Alberta Ed said:
There are so many factors affecting 'edge retention' that claims of one steel over another are kind of meaningless. I believe that 420HC out-performed 440C in Buck's CATRA tests, and that is one reason why they chose that steel. I have a bunch of CS knives, including some in mystery '400 series' stainless steel, and they all cut.
Click to expand...

More likely it is not much worse for average user to notice, but way cheaper. There are many steel which may out-perform 440C clearly.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
knarfeng said:
Point taken.

Still, it might be worthwhile to look at what knives CS uses this in. I went to their website and looked at what I could find in 4116. Nothing spectacular. The knives that one would expect edge retention in are in VG1 or AUS8. The real tough blades are SK5 or 1055. That leave some oddities in this steel. "Combat classics in Krup 4116 Stainless"? I wouldn't buy those patterns no matter what steel they were made from. All pigstickers. Used for punching holes in stuff. You could make them from 420J and they would still perform their intended function.
Click to expand...

Yupp. There are some CS models I would readily use for decorating my home, since they are classic timeless designs, nice conversation pieces and they are cheap as dirt. I just won't buy them for two reasons:

1. The price if handling, shipping, customs and VAT.

2. CS will NOT get my money. Ever. :barf:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top