KW 710-1401 review and discussion

Scott,
The tip on mine is seated lower than yours. If I cram the tip of my pinky in there I can reach it but it's acceptable.

I read where some of the early batches had your problem but BM remedied this with the later ones. I believe BM will correct this if you send it in.

Here's mine
...

Thanks for the pic. I've had good experience speaking with BM CS in the past (better than e-mail, but that too was OK). I've never sent them a knife back for work, but this will be an interesting experience to report on.
 
RE: the tip being not recessed enough from the previous posting. Better to have the tip nicely recessed. There was a batch of 710's where this wasn't the case and a bunch of us got nicked. Benchmade will fix the problem under full warranty.
 
In working with my 710 I noticed that if I inadvertently grip the scales while releasing the blade lock the blade will stay in place / not drop. If I then relax my grip the blade will drop and swing closed. I began wishing I had a spacer to prevent the sides from moving in and pinching the blade.

Hello . . .
while admiring the 710 in the sunlight I was looking at the relived areas in the steel liners and saw . . . small holes drilled about where I would want to place a spacer.

Do we suppose they planned to put one there and then decided not to ?
Had they contracted to have them put in but then the maker failed to follow through and no body has noticed yet.

Boy I notice and I notice that my Ritter Grip has a spacer / screw there and the Ritter flies open and closed like ten times better than the 710.

BENCHMADE . . . ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS ! ! ! !
Will you send me a third spacer ? Maybe it just sets in there (if it had pegs on the ends it would) and does not require a screw. In that case I don't need to drill the scales. If it requires a screw I am FULLY PREPARED AND HAPPY to drill the scales and install it myself. Counter bore the hole in the scale. I can tap the hole on one liner and thread it too if needed. Work with me here . . .

Please, please, please with sugar on top send me a third blue spacer to put in there.
I want my 710 to work like my Ritter Grip.



 
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The first time I took mine out of the box I thought it could use another standoff. I never noticed the hole until you mentioned it. I wonder where we could get another standoff and who could do this for me?
 
It's not a mistake, just a carryover from models with the plastic backspacer. That hole is where the forward end of the backspacer is held in place (backspacer's got short little plastic pegs sticking out the side that fit in the hole). They're not threaded and they're not circular but actually oval.

Might could use it for a 3rd standoff but you'd have to either drill/countersink the G10 and use a threaded standoff or tap/drop threaded inserts in the G10 and use a nonthreaded standoff. And I somehow doubt BM would just give you a matching blue one to work with.

Flickr album with better pics of liners so you can see the holes (not mine, thank you google): https://www.flickr.com/photos/tykm/sets/72157623480466824/with/4376619632/
 
Skywalker31,

Thanks for the enlightenment.

I somehow doubt BM would just give you a matching blue one to work with.

I think they should. The performance of the knife is significantly hampered without the stabilization of the steel liners by a boss near the pivot. The action is very sluggish unless I hold my mouth just right, aim and just pull the slider on the axis lock without putting any accidental squeeze on the sides of the knife with my little finger and palm or my fingers off center of the axis lock and gliding on the sides of the knife.

It was noticeable on day one and when I pick up my Griptillian again the difference is inexcusable. Night and day difference. I can come up with something but I would like the knife to look right and not "repaired". It isn't like I broke it or lost a part. It is simply inferior without the third spacer.
 
Skywalker31,

Thanks for the enlightenment.



I think they should. The performance of the knife is significantly hampered without the stabilization of the steel liners by a boss near the pivot. The action is very sluggish unless I hold my mouth just right, aim and just pull the slider on the axis lock without putting any accidental squeeze on the sides of the knife with my little finger and palm or my fingers off center of the axis lock and gliding on the sides of the knife.

It was noticeable on day one and when I pick up my Griptillian again the difference is inexcusable. Night and day difference. I can come up with something but I would like the knife to look right and not "repaired". It isn't like I broke it or lost a part. It is simply inferior without the third spacer.

Personally, I don't notice a change in looseness with my grip. However, IMO, the threads are relatively wide (which could be a good thing), but that means that adjusting them 2 degrees in one way or another makes my blade loose versus stiff. Of course, I haven't given the knife time to break in, so I keep it on the stiff side. I also wait 24 hours for the Loctite to cure after reassembly before "playing" with the knife.

Doesn't the stop pin help support the liners by the pivot? Mine seemed pressure fit into the liners.

Is it possible that your standoff screws might be loose? Do your scales slide at all when you grip the knife? The stand offs aren't shouldered, so extra care is needed during reassembly.
 
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Scott321,

Doesn't the stop pin help support the liners by the pivot? Mine seemed pressure fit into the liners.
THAT is an extremely good question. One that I was embarrassed by, I hadn't thought of that, but still I am experiencing what I have been experiencing.
Today I took the time to sit down and really isolate where I was pressing or squeezing in on the liners / scales. Turns out if I press the end of the handle against my leg, gripping only on the very ends of the lock slider bar, thus isolating the sides of the knife from any squeezing force . . . The blade drops and drops quick.
Same set up but I squeeze on the sides of the knife directly across the stop bar . . . I can consistently keep the blade from dropping until I relax my grip across the lock bar and then the blade drops every time.

Interestingly enough I did the same experiment but gripping at the heal of the knife and on the other side of the handle, where the blade tip would enter the handle slot when nearly fully closed and I can effect the exact same effect.

That is roughly where I am applying force to grip the knife when just closing the knife with the grip that feels most natural to the intended design / use. I was wondering WHY / how I was getting this effect from pressing with my little finger on the pocket clip (which is a hot spot due to the stronger springs compared to the Griptillian). Larger knife. . . stronger springs probably ARE a sound choice for a heavier use knife such as this 710 is.

To finally address the question of the lock bar : it seems that it is enough shorter so it does not interfere with the pivot friction adjustment so one can adjust play out of the pivot and still have the liners as parallel as possible.

This makes me realize the spacer I want MUST be held in place by a screw and not be just a spacer with pegs because I will still be able to TILT the liners enough with little finger force to stop the blade from dropping. A spacer, wider than the width between the stop bar shoulders and solidly bolted across with a screw could be the answer.

About the scale screws being loose enough for the scales to slide around etc. this is a quote from one of my earlier posts :

To night I loosened both screws at the blue spacers. Now it was dropping and swinging nearly as good as when it came out of the fridge. Moral of story : have your knife valet keep your EDCs in a portable fridge unit until you call for one.
Kidding, I'm kidding

So next I tightened down the screw nearest the lanyard hole all the way to tight. The blade was still free. I tightened the other screw going through the blue spacer and the blade bound up again. Loosened that screw a little . . . annnnnnnnnd . . .
viola
the blade drops and closes pretty darned nice. I tried tightening the blade pivot screw but that was not good. I may have been able to close it up a little but not significantly. When the blade is locked open there is a bit of side to side play (more than a trace) (none up and down). When half closed there is zero play.
 
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Wowbagger, do you have the KW's exclusive or the stock version?

On my KW's version (as mentioned previously), it was easy to foul up the positioning of the scales to liners, which had an effect on the action.

Wow & GB40, when the knife is closed, how far is the blade tip from the handle opening? This is a separate question for me, not necessarily related to your issue. If I rub my finger over the area where the blade tip is housed (when closed) I can catch the tip on my finger. Is this normal?

This is a pic of what I'm talking about:

20161019_051918.jpg

Mine was the same way. The tip stuck out proud from the handle enough that I could cut myself if I was not careful. I disassembled the knife and polished the surface of the tang that makes contact with the stop pin when closed. I used a dremel and polishing wheel and went very slowly. I was able to remove just enough material to allow the blade to seat fully closed and not effect anything else. I also polished the washers while I was at it and it's now extremely smooth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Scott321,

Wowbagger, do you have the KW's exclusive or the stock version?

On my KW's version (as mentioned previously), it was easy to foul up the positioning of the scales to liners, which had an effect on the action.

Wow & GB40, when the knife is closed, how far is the blade tip from the handle opening? This is a separate question for me, not necessarily related to your issue. If I rub my finger over the area where the blade tip is housed (when closed) I can catch the tip on my finger. Is this normal?

Oh man !
Some how I missed your post to me.
Sorry.

Yah . . . hmmmmm

First off I DO have the KW version.

I THOUGHT mine was pretty recessed but using the Pinky-Diognostic-Systems-Approach . . . I can easily catch skin. Using my index finger I cannot without pressing fairly firmly.

Heck I could take some off the back of the blade all along that "clip" point. It's not really a clip point is it ? What is that called a false double edge point ? I have forgotten.

I have a large diamond file about a foot long so wouldn't take long; then hit it on some stones.

Thanks for drawing my attention to this possible anomaly.

Hey is there a good location for some background on McHenry & Williams ?
Now I'm REALLY showing my ignorance.
One of the reasons I ask is : should I be "blaming" those guys for this weird missing stud because they designed it this way or what ?
I really like the etching of their name on the knife blade and stuff.
The reason I even bring this up is I plan to grind the blade significantly thinner and have been wondering if it is worth grinding it goofy/off center just to preserve their names on the knife because they are such cool dudes or what ?
 
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It’s not like me to not post too many photos . . . time to make up for that little oversight :





So I used this Dial caliper to measure the amount the very tip of the blade is bellow the scales.
The measurement is roughly 0.7 mm





This end of the caliper has a depth measuring rod; you can just see the tip of it protruding, 0.7 mm, from the end of the tool’s bar in this photo


I found it easiest to measure by extending a portion of the depth rod, tighten the slide lock screw and then place the end of the caliper bar across the scales then sight in the knife to see how close the depth rod was to the blade tip. The orientation of the measuring caliper across the knife scales is shown here.



So are we knife Nerds or what ? I ask you !
 
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To whomever speculating the stop pin support the liners, I don't think the stop pin is fitted tight enough into the liners such that it will support the liners in normal condition, because on some 710-1401's the stop pin actually is loose enough such that when you shake the knife when the blade is closed, you can actually hear the pin is rattling.
 
...
This end of the caliper has a depth measuring rod; you can just see the tip of it protruding, 0.7 mm, from the end of the tool’s bar in this photo
...

That's awesome that you went ahead and did that! Thank you!

To whomever speculating the stop pin support the liners, I don't think the stop pin is fitted tight enough into the liners such that it will support the liners in normal condition, because on some 710-1401's the stop pin actually is loose enough such that when you shake the knife when the blade is closed, you can actually hear the pin is rattling.

My stop pin was pressed in so tight I had to disassemble the knife with them still holding the liners together... no, it wasn't screwed in. I'm not sure if this is normal or not but I don't take issue with it.

I sent in my KW's BM 710 to BM about a week ago and UPS tracking said it should be back here in a couple days. I will update you guys when it gets in.
 
Hey bagger,
I'm getting a Sprig for Christmas.

My wife said I can't talk to you anymore because you're a bad influence.:cool:
 
GB,

I'm getting a Sprig for Christmas.

My wife said I can't talk to you anymore because you're a bad influence.

Deep Sinister laugh (_________)

Oh yah . . . well I think we are even because now I can't pass a photo of the original Gayle Bradley without stopping to look real close, reread the specs and sniff all around it. I have a much better appreciation and may well wind up enjoying one. Could be my first M4 . . . especially if the Paras with the natural scales and M4 blade remains hard to come by. As they say "I simply MUST . . ." have some M4.
 
I just got my knife back. I originally called BM's CS, and they were very nice. They directed me to their website to fill out the warranty card and send the knife in. I can tell that the blade sits a hair further down. It doesn't appear to be down as far as GB40Rookie, BM moved it down enough that I don't scrape the tip unless I intentionally try to. It's strange, as if I pull back the lock when closed, the blade sits further down still. I'm satisfied, but will probably tinker around with it later.

Before and after pics. It's hard to tell the difference but my finger doesn't catch all the time now. GB40Rookie's pic is on the bottom to compare.

Before:

20161019_051918.jpg


After:

20161108_234514.jpg


Scott,
The tip on mine is seated lower than yours. If I cram the tip of my pinky in there I can reach it but it's acceptable.

I read where some of the early batches had your problem but BM remedied this with the later ones. I believe BM will correct this if you send it in.

Here's mine
image_zps0fgljffe.jpeg
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GB,



Deep Sinister laugh (_________)

Oh yah . . . well I think we are even because now I can't pass a photo of the original Gayle Bradley without stopping to look real close, reread the specs and sniff all around it. I have a much better appreciation and may well wind up enjoying one. Could be my first M4 . . . especially if the Paras with the natural scales and M4 blade remains hard to come by. As they say "I simply MUST . . ." have some M4.

You really should get some M4 and the GB is awesome. I feel the GB2 is a better comparison to the Para. For me, the GB kicks them both out of bed.
 
Wowbagger,

I had this same problem with a 710 many moons ago. I believe I posted in here about it.

The backspacer on my 710 was not the same thickness as the washer+blade+washer stack. I'm sure you know but for a smooth no play pivot, the scales/handles need to be parallel and true. Well the undersized back spacer was the problem. If I observed from the "spine" of the handle I could tighten the body screws and as I did, watch the liners pinch inwards at the screw points. Effectively skewing the liners at the pivot and causing them to not be parallel. So I could tighten the pivot to eliminate play but then the action would not be smooth. Or I could dial in the action and there would be play.

I measured the blade/washer stack against the backspacer. It was thicker. I sanded the washers down evenly until the blade/washer stack was even to the backspacer. Put it all back together and it was perfect.

I think with BM using the stand-offs now on the 710 this problem may be gone. But I can see how your missing stand off + tight grip could cause the same skewing of the liners.

Just thought I would share my experience. :)
 
Thanks Kniferbro.

Yes this winter when I am snowed in and nothing to do I need to take 'er apart and see what I can do about it.
I have one or two knife projects ahead of this one though that I am excited about.
 
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