L6 Damascus

JTknives

Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I have been wanting to do some L6 damascus and was wondering what is a good steel to weld with it. I have heard of people using O1 but i was wondering if 5160 would give much of a pattern. How is welding L6 compared to other basic 10xx steels? thanks for the help
 
1095 + L6 was the metal I used for my first damascus billet. Welds like 15N20 and my understanding L6 & 15N20 are very similar. Folks with more knowledge and expertise will eventually chip in and give their advice.
 
Aldo has 15N20 ( L-6) and 1080 or 1095. Many like the 1095 because it has a little extra carbon to burn out in the many welding heats. The 1080/15N20 mix is a standard for many. The two have the same carbon content and weld beautifully.
Satcy
 
Off another good site:)


Bright lines:


L-6 a high nickel content carbon steel. It is common used in sawmill bandsaw blades, but not always. It can be purchased in round stock. It combines well with carbon steel for a highly reflective, high contrast billet. L-6 is known as a tough steel and adding it to the billet will only enhance the performance.

15N20 the Swedish version of L-6. It can be bought in thin stock from Jeff Carlisle and is an excellent steel with constant quality.

O-1 is a common tool steel that has enough chrome to make a bright line when welded with low carbon or high carbon steels. It is sensitive to heat and will crumble if overheated, but by the same token can be welded cleanly at lower temperatures.

ASTM 203E is a nickel bearing low carbon steel. It is common used in making up fittings, but can be used as the low carbon element in Damascus blades. Nice contrast and high reflectivity. You can by this in sheet from American Alloy Steel Houston, TX 1-800-231-3502.

Nickel for the brightest contrast pure nickel is often used. I do not recommend it for blade steel. Nickel is a carbon blocker and in the finished billet the soft nickel layers will end up on the edge and affect performance. It is best used in fittings for really high contrast.



Dark Lines

The dark lines in the Damascus come for the low alloy carbon steels. You can get colors from light gray to dark black by varying the carbon content, the lightest being regular hot rolled low carbon. Adding low carbon to the billet will lower the overall carbon content of the finished piece of steel and you need to take it into account as you construct your billet. I like to have at least .60 to .80 points carbon in my billets and this can be figured by taking the percent carbon in each piece of the original billet and then averaging to find the projected carbon content in the finished billet. This seems like higher math to me tonight, but I am sure you can figure it out if you give it some thought. This will only represent a guesstimate since you are going to lose some carbon in the process of welding the billet. I have gone almost exclusively to high carbon billets and am happy with the performance I get, but it is entirely up to the individual maker and what effect he his looking to achieve.

Howard Clark ran a series of experiments to find out what was giving the variation in shades of gray from one carbon steel over another. His results showed that the manganese content contributed to the darkness of the line. You might contact Howard for more information on this if you are interested. If you have made any Damascus you also have found out that the heat treatment will greatly affect the etch and coloration of the finished steel too. The Japanese hamon is a great example of the wide variation possible through heat treatment. When you differentially harden a homogenous piece of steel you get marked difference in colors from the hardened portion and the unhardened. Most makers curse their etchant first, but if you think about what is going on with the steels the problem often lies in the heat treatment.

Some of my favorite carbon steels to use in Damascus are:

1095 It is a good knife steel and has a slightly higher beginning carbon content and contrast nicely with 15N20 or L-6

1084 Slightly lower carbon content and more forgiving in the heat treat. Makes a good blade steel, easy welding.

5160 A lot of makers really like this steel. It is an oil hardening steel and has been called fool proof steel because it is very forgiving with the forging and hardening. I don't use it much but not a bad choice.

52100 This is an alloyed steel and once you learn how to heat treat and forge it, it has exceptional qualities. Howard says that when they first made it they had to extend the grain size charts to accommodate it's very fine grain. It is not for the novice and you really need good controls for proper heat treating, but worth the effort in terms of performance.

W-2 This is the bladesmiths steel of choice because of it forges nicely and heat treats so well. It has added vanadium and is a fine grain steel. The only problem is they don't make it any more or at least I can't find it so it isn't readily available.
 
Use O1. 5160 will only lower the overall carbon content of the billet. O1 will add some. They also heat treat similarly. Steels like 1095 would not be a good choice for L6. If you use a quenchant fast enough for the 1095, you might get micro-cracking in the L6...
 
the only reason i was aski9ng about 5160 and L6 is a have a bunch of both. burton how accurate is that list of steels.
 
Awh ha I found where you got that list from. i no longer doubt its validity :D
 
I use 1084 or 1095 with 15n20 myself. 1095, having lower manganese than 1084 will etch a lighter grey than 1084. I've had no issues of microcracking when heat treat is done right. O-1 goes well with L6, and will etch VERY dark due to the amount of Mn in it, but you really need to anneal it before you grind/drill it, and to do that right needs a kiln.

I've seen 5106/15n20 before and it's a very functional mix, just not too contrasty. It's kind of "dusky" looking.

-d
 
True L6 can be a pain in the ass, because of the chromium.

15N20 has no chromium, therefore it gets used in my shop :)

1084 and 15N20 is hard to beat and sometimes I add a bit of W2. Is a fine mix!
 
Thank you Don! I just assumed that eventually somebody would point out the differences after all the discussions we have had here about how L6 is not anything like 15n20. A very tragic error that has been made by too many for years is using 15n20 and L6 interchangebly, they are two entirely different alloys with having only differing nickel contents in common, it is like saying 5160 and O1 are basically the same steel since they both have some chrome.

Heat 15n20 and air cooling will get you pearlite, heating L6 and air coolling will get you bainite, martensite and as much as 61HRC. Mixing 15n20 with 1095, 1080, 1084, W1 or W2 will get you a very well matched damascus that will heat treat like it was one steel with great edge holding and a beautiful contrast. Mixing true L6 with any of these steels will get you a little more challenge in welding, a nice contrast, but a serious compromise in the heat treat that will force you to choose between over stressing the L6 or under hardening the other which will also naturally risk more distortion. Mixing L6 with O1 will give the same win/win situation you would get with 15n20 and 1084, but the 15n20/1084 is much more user friendly for starting out with.
 
thanks for the all the help every one. its been awhile sence i have done any welding but I'm getting the bug again. maybe i should pick and easier combo to start with.
 
You are welcome, Kevin!

Kevin has the 01/L6 down and does it right! I like easy and trouble free, so it's 1084/W2/15N20 for me :)
 
I might try some L6/O1 as i saw some of the Damascus steel by kevin and it looks very nice. I just need to forge down the L6 from 1" round into bar stock which is not a problem. i don't mind hand forging crucibles L6. its a little harder than the other stuff i forge but i don't really find it that bad. Hay kevin do you have any tips on welding up L6 and O1 ;);)
 
Watch how hot you go, scorching white hot is not necesary or even good for this mix. Grind between folds. Most importantly keep it moving under the hammer while hot and when done do NOT allow it to cool to room temp from a welding level heat. Step it down over a few heats allowing it to go magnetic (around 750F) between and finishing with a subcritical heat. If you cool this mix from welding heat to room temp... it won't like it, and you won't like the results after all of your hard work.:( Spheroidize when done as this mix will eat up evey mill or drill you put to it if you don't.
 
Nice to see someone who doesn't mind breaking out a hand hammer for drawing larger stock now and then! Build up that right arm 'till you look lopsided as a fiddler crab...:D
Thanks guys, I learned some good stuff here.:thumbup:
 
Nice to see someone who doesn't mind breaking out a hand hammer for drawing larger stock now and then! Build up that right arm 'till you look lopsided as a fiddler crab...:D
Thanks guys, I learned some good stuff here.:thumbup:

I am left handed most of the time. but when i forge down the 1" L6 i use both hands, as one gets tired and i switch to the other :D
 
I'm late to this party, but I was going to second Phillip's post, as well as the subsequent ones by Don and Kevin.

Personally, my recommendation is to wait on L6/O1 until you have a bunch of experience with something easier to deal with... like 1084/15N20.

The L6/O1 is less forgiving right at the start.... during forging... and of course REQUIRES much tighter tolerances for heat-treating.

I do think it's a superior cutting mix.... hell, simply knowing its Kevin's preferred mix is a great big endorsement. My first experience with this mix was forging a hunter from some of Kevin's steel. :)

But for great contrast, ease in forging and heat-treating... I definitely recommend some more simple "shallow hardening" steels.

We need pics...whatever you do Jarod :)
 
Ok so now where to get the best price on 15n20 and 1084. i was thinking of getting the 1084 from aldo but it's 1/4" thick. is it possible to find 15n20 that thick to match up with the 1/4" 1084 if not then what?
 
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