LBE, your thoughts? Please weigh in.

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

I started a thread awhile back about what you all carry your gear in. When I mentioned that I was interested in LBE, I got a number of negative replies.

What in particular do people not like about LBE?

Anyone use it regularly, on the civilian side? What do you mil guys think?

I realize that the appearance is mil, and therefor not to sheeple friendly, but other than that LBE seems just about perfect.

To get things going, I will list some of what I think the positive features are...

-Distributes weight evenly giving you better balance. Better chance you will have your gear on you.

-Gear accessible without taking the harness off which would give better odds that you will have your gear on you.

-Very customizable. Heck, if they don't make the pouch you want, make one allowing for the clips or wire-ties and you are set.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Review of the World Survival Institute, Chris Janowsky survival knife, the Ranger.

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"Many are blinded by name and reputation, few see the truth" Lao Tzu
 
I like the LBE (aka LBV) a lot better than the old H-harnesses we were issued in the past. As mentioned, it distributes weight better than the suspenders.

They are Marine Proof meaning that they take a ton of abuse and still function. The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that if you put a lot in the buttpack, the weight can be quite bad on the shoulders and back.

All issue versions have two loops that snap near the top of the shoulder. This can be used to carry flashlights or a carabiner for weapons retention. For some reason, the snap part is facing inboard and can irritate the neck if wearing a regular shirt. When wearing cammies, the snap can be tucked under the collar and forgotten. Why they designed it this way I don't know.
 
Hummmmm where to start........

LBV....these issue vests stink, poor load capability, pain in the ass with a but pack, hard to access ammo when prone, traps body heat, hard to wear over body armor, extremly hard to wear & very uncomfortable over cold weather gear and then try wearing one with body armor and full cold weather gortex ensemble HA!!!! Good luck. I refuse to wear one and have recently found out they are baned from the Saudi AO due to causing all kinds of heat casualties.

For civilian use when camping/hunting/4 wheeling and other outdoor activities a BlackHawk or Eagle vest would work quite well in moderate temps. These vests are camelback compatable, provide excellent back support and will carry enough emergency suplies to last you several days if/when you end up lost/stranded.

LBE.........My personal favorite and duty rig. For the field and standard deployments I wear a BlackHawk H Harness with 100oz camelback, 2 M16 ammo pouches (240 rds), Livesey Air Assualt knife, military compass, Handcuffs, Flexi cuffs 4 pair, tactical radio, indivual 1st aid kit customized, Flashlight and a carabiner. I also have 2 more M16 pouches, 2 canteens, Randall #14, pistol holster and dual ammo pouch and a butpack that can be added depending on mission requirements.

I've also got all alice clips removed and hold everything on with black zip ties. I've also added a pistol belt pad that helps keep down hot spots.My daily cary LBE weighs right around 45 lbs, try humping this day in and day out OUCH!!! Once on a real world callout with ammo & water but no food my LBE weighed nearly 80 LBS.

On my BDU pants belt I carry a Saffariland 3004 Tactical drop rig holster with a Beretta 92, Black Hawk ammo pouch, SOG multi tool. If the pistol is not carried I just stuff a extra M16 mag in a pocket and have 2 mags in my weapon.

When your carrying this much crap it gets to be a real pain in the arse unless you're in a full time life and death tactical mode. What I normally do is drop the LBE and just wear the pistol and ammo (if issued, again depending on mission) SOG multitool, Randall knife and stuff a radio in a pocket.

Now that I've got a Black Hawk Phoenex pack (can you tell I love Black Hawk gear) I'm restructuring my LBE trying to cut down on the weight and streamlining everything.

Once you get everything in a pack and configured for you it's much lighter on your back & hips, easyer to access than a buttpack and has more room for vital gear. You can dump it if/when needed and easly grab when on the run. Try grabbing your LBE and straping it on at a dead run sometime. The pack is also much quiter when packed than the LBE and does not snag on vines/branches and crap as easy.

Right now all my extra crap has found a home in the Phoenix pack and I'm just wearing the LBE & camelback with 2 ammo pouches, compass, 1st aid kit, cuffs, flexi cuffs and a Sabre radio. My duty weapon is a GAU 5A/A (Car 15) While this is much lighter I still fimd myself chucking the LBE in my truck when on the road as it's a pain driving while wearing the gear. However, my GAU is rather close and easy to access if/when needed.

One thing no matter what you do is ifin you are carying a shoulder fired weapon do NOT place anything in/on your shoulder where it could interfeer with your rifle. This will get you killed when you try to quickly mount your rifle and it snaggs on a flashlight. beener or anything else there. Keep both shoulders clear so you can shoot right or left handed.

Bottom line....for my money and ass the pack is a better year round way to go than a LBE or vest. Ifin you want gear on your bod check out Black Hawk's line of tac gear you strap to your pants belt. Don't carry more on your pants than a holster, pistol, ammo and knife with a small survival kit.

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SAS RKBA freedom Scottsbluff Cowboy Shooters Cheyenne Regulators

[This message has been edited by Shrike9 (edited 09-20-2000).]
 
They banned LBV's from the sandbox?! Last time I was there (less than a year ago) we could still wear them. Must be an Air Force thing. I never found heat and the LBV to be a big deal although I've heard others complain about it. Just drink lots of water and you should be fine.

I did see a lot of you guys (AF SP's) wearing blackhawk and an odd assortment of gear when I was there. Unfortunately, the Marine Corps won't allow us to wear our own gear. I have to agree that Blackhawk and other manufacturers make vests just as good for around the same price. Also try London Bridge Trading Company. That's where the Corps gets it CQB/SRT vests.
 
LBV damnable things, never have like them never will. The dig into the shoulders too much and the weigth distribution is like carrying an egg with a bowling ball. And Shrike 9, where in the world would you carry all that stuff? The only guys i know of that carry that much stuff are psychotic recondo, or those airwing attatche that seems to fall out of helicopters alot. The most i usually carry is the Alice, 4 clips for the M-16, a Glock 17 and camel back. As for the food and clothing, all that stuff fits neatly into that nice rugsack they issue us, but hey, that frame is damn good at weight distribution. But as they say:

The only good thing issued are the ones your bring.



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Peter Bui
Some guy in California just ate a worm and boy is it yummy.
 
Marion,

Can you provide a picture of the style you are wanting discussed. A lot has changed since I left the military in 1991. If you are talking about the style that had a buttpack, canteens, suspenders, and other various attached items....

They are OK but I didn't care for the way the buttpack would ride on me. With all the great products available now... I would opt for something else... perhaps a HAWG camelback, etc. However... to each his/her own. All that matters is that it meets your needs and allows you to carry your gear comfortably.

So Marion... am I right on what it is you are discussing?

best to all....

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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
 
Greg,

You are right with the subject.

I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on it. I thought that maybe given your job might have given you some insight into the different styles of backpacks, harness's, etc.

Thanks,
MDP
 
For comfort,I use the hip belt/pack lid rig. It will accept both Y&H suspenders; my camel
MULE is lashed by Y suspenders, D-rings affix it to packlid(buttpack). Two 32oz. Nalgenes straddle in REI holsters; the belt holds alot and I add stuff as needed. The belt/packlid combo is part of my Dana Terraplane X.

For ugly, Blackhawk Phoenix w/side bags(ammo)
Inside, LC2 padded belt, H susp, mag pouches and other add-ons.?? Blade,Medkit,MULE,GPS..
WTH,toss in a couple drop leg holsters. Jason
 
Marion,

My thoughts on backpacks.... hmmmm...

Once again... a very personal decision. Everyone is made a little different. Some have big butts with small chests; some with big chests and chicken legs; some with a stick for a body. Not one pack can meet the needs of everyone and there is no such thing as a pack that TRUELY adjust to all body types. Thus a pack must be choosen base on body types and needs.

I personally like the following:

1. Light travel: Hawg Camelback
2. Summer Off trail Backpacking (I never travel on trail
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): External frame Kelty Super Tioga (long trips) or Tioga (short trips)
3. Winter or technical: Mountainsmith internal frame.

The reason I use a HAWG on Short trips.... All I need is water and a medium range survival kit.

The reason I use an external frame in the summer is... I sweat like a pig and I hate having the pack right on my back.

The reason I use an internal frame in the winter and during any technical trips is... I like the added balance it gives me... especially if I am climbing.

I have many various types of packs (hmmm lets see.... I own over 16 Kelty Tioga external frames (student packs)/1 Kelty Super Tiogo/4 various sized internal frame packs/1 Large Alice pack with Frame/3 Camelbacks) and I like them all... but choose the one I will use base on my needs for that trip.

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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
 
That's one of the nice things about the AF, you have a much greater lattatude of gear. But then our field conditions are really the pits without cable TV and a microwave
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Back in the early 80's I got yanked for a no notice real world emergency deployment. Less than 2 hours after notification I was airborne with the standard issue gear. What was orginally slated as a 2 week TDY turned into a 6 month visit to a real rat hole (we lived in GP mediums and ate c-rats for the first 2 months, and then MRE's for the next month). After that I vowed never again would I get caught without the proper gear. While I've had to purchase much of my own gear it's really paid off in the long run.


 
My main objection to LBE is that it's already relatively heavy before you put anything in it, and is very bulky.

If you want a buttpack, and lord knows why any red-blooded American male would, man, that name...
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, go for one of the civilian numbers. Lighter, less bulky, more comfortable, and can be biggger in terms of usable space. And they have nifty special pockets and design features.

I've always hauled everything in a Eastpack soft bodied day pack, one big section, one little section. Though I've modified mine with loops to attach alice clips for a military canteen carier, to either side.

I mostly carry it by the handle, or over one shoulder, since any sort of back pack makes my back uncomfortably sweaty. Only when I need both hands do I fully sling it.

If you're talking TEOTWAWKI-survival, I guess you'd need some place to keep your spare magazines for your blaster too.

I'd go for a half leather/half tire bandolier across the chest, and an Ishapore IIA Enfield(tanker version) w/bayonet, `cause it looks more post-apocalyptic.
 
I have been a bow hunter for years, and my dad Always had me wear and LBE with good to have stuff. It is a little heavy, but the way I have it currenty set up I have 3-5 days that I could live on it.

Camelbak is great, but canteens and a canteen cup is important too.

The weight distribution prolem was solved with 2 LBE fanny packs, one on each hip. The H-suspenders are great for distributing load, and I attatch ammo pouches/canteen covers to the sides of the packs. I can carry alot of stuff without alot of problem. I still have room front and back for more pouches. Much more comfortible with a backpack, and as bowhunter the front of my body is clear. A sniper that I know has adopted this setup because he can keep the front clear for low crawling without having to take his LBE off.

When I upgrade next year (probably to a Blackhawk vest) I will keep the same system, but I think i will try the cable ties Idea.

pat
 
What are the benefits of the cable ties?
Could I use them to convert my Livesay horiz. sheath to vertical?
My concern is how well they wear...
TIA,
Ebbtide
 
I use cableties to reinforce my gear. Alice clips have a tendency of breaking, rusting, or not closing properly, especially if you've been crawling around in the mud or your gear gets caught up on barbed wire while you're going through an O course.

I generally carry my knife vertical carry but I use ducktape for the most part to secure it to my LBV.
 
Way cool, I'll try them out
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What to carry the gear in, is a dilemma I face each hunting season. I've shied away from using my web gear...Don't want to look like "GI Joe" the anti's have enough ammo...It has served me well on our annual winter hike/picnic. Add a daypack to the LBE buttpack/canteens/ammo pouches & you can bring a big load pretty comfortably
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Ebbtide out.
 
I say screw the anti's!! Wear what you like to wear and what's comfortable to you. I don't try and cut my high and tight any different just b/c some ignorant POS liberal communist loving freak gives me strange looks when I walk around campus. I just stare right back. I've yet to have one say anything to me except for this one Asian guy that said something in Chinese and didn't realize that I speak Chinese since I am Asian (but hey, what do you expect? He's from China, no offense to noncommunist Chinese people)

Sorry about the rant. Try a blackhawk 3 day assault backpack (I think that's the name). It's not as convenient as a LBV but it looks less threatening. Mountain Smith Buttpacks and a camelbacks are favorites of mine too for trail running, or any other activities.
 
Here in NY we have to wear our 'tag' in the middle of your back. I'm not sure of the legalities of covering it up (with a backpack). I do my very best to stay on the good side of Mr. John Q. Law
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I have 3 fanny packs, almost like searching for the perfect knife, and they are ok, but you can't really lash on your extra clothing for the hike in & out... I guess I'll do like last year and use my pistol belt for my knife, canteen & e-kit, and the GI buttpack on a shoulder strap for my thermos, lunch, drag rope, extra gloves, etc. Since I can tie my overpants and coat to the pack. Last year it got up into the 50's and we looked like dayglo ragpickers comin' out of the woods!
What I really need is a gunbearer or two
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Weighed in on the other thread but failed to mention the Mountainsmith series of fanny (BUTT) packs. While expensive there are none better. I have both the small and the large size. They both have compression straps on the sides to stabilize the load. You'd be surprised how much stuff one can squeeze in the large one.

Compared to the LBE these are an elegant solution, albeit mouch more costly.



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"Women bring life into the world
and much death, for they sway the
destinies of men." -Anneas
 
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