leaveing the fold..selling out

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bigjim

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May 7, 2005
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I have tried, I really did. I tried to buy into the mystique, the product loyalty.

But I can no longer believe because of the following:

1. Bura does not make a bunch of knives a day. Yet the every daily special claims he does. This is not a cultural misunderstanding, its a lie.
2. Crude manufacture is crude manufacture. I respect the people of Nepal and I will not lower my standards out of respect.
3. The knives that khuk buyers call good would be sent back in flames to an American custom maker.
4. For me price is not the object.
5. I have etched / used enough HI knives to know the heat treat sucks and is very hit and miss. The religion that has evolved around the Kamis is silly at best. At worst it is a calculated play for American generosity.
6. The handles suck
7. The scabbards suck, bulky and cheap.

I have purchased 14 HI knives in the last year or so. I Will be selling them and buying some nice knives with the money from American makers. Keep an eye on the for sale forum.

I just can't help it. I have experienced what some truly AMAZING craftsmen can do and it is has changed me. I can no longer make due or be an apologist for shoddy work and dishonest marketing. (bura makes bunches of knives a day)

I know this will get me flamed and the post may end up deleted. But try to have mercy, this is a painful realization as I wanted very much to support Yangdu and HI.

I truly hope this post will spark honest talk and a improvement in HI products. My fear is it wont. I fear Fan boys with huge investments in the product will carry the day.


Goodbye,
bigjim
 
If this thread doesn't pan out, feel free to start a "Sebenza sucks" thread over in the general discussion forum. :D
 
Bigjim,
Yangdu gets a shipment every once in awhile which has gathered the work from many days. That is not a lie. OK? Bura makes what he makes- I imagine a couple knives a day. (which is what Bill thought several years ago)

As for the rest- you are right about comparing a fine American custom knife maker to these large khuks from Nepal. The American knife maker has a thing of precise beauty. If that is what rings your bell, let her ring!

The heat treat is not hit and miss. For years Bill used to test each edge and recorded the Rockwell hardness. He got tired of doing this, and I don't think Yangdu knows how. But the blades are wonderful, they do their jobs. They are imperfect often, and I love them. I would not even think of asking the Kami squating on the floor in front of a forge to make a blade as consistant as a Busse or anything else. It just would not occur to me.

These HI khukuris have been sold around the world, and are in many fields. They've been torture tested by independant examiners. Beauty is as Beauty does, and in a world of poor tools and hollowness, bright packaging and cosmetic beauty, these 'less than perfect' khukuris are the real thing, hold like a good right arm, and are a blessing to those who buy them and those who made them.

Take care of yourself. You don't have leave- or buy HI khuks. It's OK.

munk
 
If it's not what you want, it's not what you want. No sense in apologizing for your likes and dislikes. I don't agree with all of your points, but if that had been my experience, I would not be happy either.

I'll keep an eye on the sale forum.

Edited to add: I don't want any new arrivals to get the wrong idea about my opinion here, so I will mention that I've tested HI products at various times against cars, cinderblocks, telephone poles, and some other things. I found the heat treat to be acceptable for my purposes, but I'm not a professional.

The handles can take a bit of work sometimes, though. ;)
 
munk said:
Bigjim,
Yangdu gets a shipment every once in awhile which has gathered the work from many days. That is not a lie. OK? Bura makes what he makes- I imagine a couple knives a day. (which is what Bill thought several years ago)

As for the rest- you are right about comparing a fine American custom knife maker to these large khuks from Nepal. The American knife maker has a thing of precise beauty. If that is what rings your bell, let her ring!

The heat treat is not hit and miss. For years Bill used to test each edge and recorded the Rockwell hardness. He got tired of doing this, and I don't think Yangdu knows how. But the blades are wonderful, they do their jobs. They are imperfect often, and I love them. I would not even think of asking the Kami squating on the floor in front of a forge to make a blade as consistant as a Busse or anything else. It just would not occur to me.

These HI khukuris have been sold around the world, and are in many fields. They've been torture tested by independant examiners. Beauty is as Beauty does, and in a world of poor tools and hollowness, these 'less than perfect' khukuris are the real thing, hold like a good right arm, and a blessing to those who buy them and those who made them.

Take care of yourself.

munk
Click to expand...

Monk that is a honest and truthful reply. It reflects well on you. Further it is in keeping with the honest, and painful topic I started.
 
Bigjim- I've added to my first post and you may not have read it- but-
You don't have to leave. You don't have to buy HI khuks. And you don't have to explain why it took 14 of them. (I don't know why people do that- if I'd a video camera for some of the repetitious stuff I've done in life....well, it would put all of us to sleep)

You said something about a religion about the kamis- and how silly that was. HUH? I don't worship Kamis. Who are they?

Those guys make a damn good tool, but it is what it is. And of religion, we talk to each other here, and I'm talking to you now. That's my religion.
Sheesh. Pull up a chair.


munk
 
Which planet are you living on?
You just can't get a forged knife of that size (from an experienced knifemaker) for less than $1000!
And the sheaths might not be the prettiest, but they're tough as HECK!
 
Very negative stuff....

Hi is very straight about how the knives are made. The comment about heat treatment is a bit off. Hi uses differential heat treatment. What do you expect if they are pouring water on hot steel, and recycled steel at that.

No one has been hiding manufacturing techniques. Just look at the web site.

If you want a through-tempered blade, it is easy to find them.
Just go to any sporting goods store and get a Kabar or Buck.
 
Jim I'm only gonna say these few things.

I never think of high-end workmanship with an HI khuk or for that matter anything I've bought from Windlass...I see a tool period.

The Kamis try hard,sure even the "best of the best" may lack the polish we as American/Western folk are used to but...dammit they try this may well be the only thing you've said I take offense at :grumpy:

Worship the Kamis..hn?! man you smokin' somethin'??

Hit or miss heat treat? yea sometimes I'd guess,but hell just drop Mrs. Yangdu a line and it'll be taken care of.:thumbup:

So I really don't know what yer beeotching about...I'll see what you have for offer though.

Good luck-don't smack into the door jamb on the way out.
 
My point in asking was because I don't believe it took that many knives to suddenly have the feelings you have. I have a sense there is something else going on that isn't being spoken.

Everyone has their opinions, everyone that saw my Pen knife in action today against machetes, and other tools might have different opinions as well. Sorry if my post sounded mean or anything, wasn't meant to be. I'm tired and sore and going to bed now.

I don't think it was right to call anyone a liar though.

Good luck on your new collecting interests.

Billy
 
bigjim said:
I have tried, I really did. I tried to buy into the mystique, the product loyalty.

But I can no longer believe because of the following:

1. Bura does not make a bunch of knives a day. Yet the every daily special claims he does. This is not a cultural misunderstanding, its a lie.
2. Crude manufacture is crude manufacture. I respect the people of Nepal and I will not lower my standards out of respect.
3. The knives that khuk buyers call good would be sent back in flames to an American custom maker.
4. For me price is not the object.
5. I have etched / used enough HI knives to know the heat treat sucks and is very hit and miss. The religion that has evolved around the Kamis is silly at best. At worst it is a calculated play for American generosity.
6. The handles suck
7. The scabbards suck, bulky and cheap.

I have purchased 14 HI knives in the last year or so. I Will be selling them and buying some nice knives with the money from American makers. Keep an eye on the for sale forum.

I just can't help it. I have experienced what some truly AMAZING craftsmen can do and it is has changed me. I can no longer make due or be an apologist for shoddy work and dishonest marketing. (bura makes bunches of knives a day)

I know this will get me flamed and the post may end up deleted. But try to have mercy, this is a painful realization as I wanted very much to support Yangdu and HI.

I truly hope this post will spark honest talk and a improvement in HI products. My fear is it wont. I fear Fan boys with huge investments in the product will carry the day.


Goodbye,
bigjim
Click to expand...

very, very, very few people in america make 1/2" thick knives. let alone in those proportions. your getting a formed blade that can be reheat treated if you dont like the heat treat. that alone makes it worth it to me - even if evereything else is worthless (and i dont beleive it is).

to get a knife thats 1/2" thick here you'd pay more then you do with HI - even for an unheat treated blank. and i know enough to learn how to heat treat 5160 on a budget - so the heat treat really doesnt bother me.

i'll be honest - there hasnt been a single HI blade that has really impressed me in its fit and finish. todd beggs - he impresses me. gene ingram - he impresses me. every HI blade i've gotten has had hammer marks, sligthly uneven grinds, and sheaths that have leather imperfections and grains that dont run in the right direction.

but i've never held a blade that felt as powerful. im breaking down an uddha sword right now and everyone is saying how i "have a lot of balls" to try it - and i dont see it that way at all. as you said, im not impressed by anything really about the blade, other then its raw function and ability to chop and power through material. if the antler scales are damaged, i'll make new ones, probably just as "shoddy" as the ones it came with - because all i need them to do is work. they dont have to be pretty, they dont have to be perfect, they just have to work.

and thats what HI provides for me - raw function.
 
arty said:
Very negative stuff....

What do you expect if they are pouring water on hot steel, and recycled steel at that.

No one has been hiding manufacturing techniques. Just look at the web site.

If you want a through-tempered blade, it is easy to find them.
Click to expand...

//I expect better results. //Never claimed they did. //I said I don't think Bura makes sveral knives day by himself. And no.... watching overs others is not the same thing.

//Lastly Thanks but I have found a several sources of knives that meet my needs.


I did not mean for this to be a debate.... Just a expression of my thoughts. Heck someday I may buy another HI knife. Just not now. I have found what I see as better values.
 
I have a sense there is something else going on that isn't being spoken.>>>>>medbill


Bill, I appreciate this insight and the quality way you brought it up.



munk
 
bigjim said:
1. Bura does not make a bunch of knives a day. Yet the every daily special claims he does. This is not a cultural misunderstanding, its a lie.
Click to expand...

i dont see it that way. the deals of the day arent daily, and even if theres 3 bura blades in each one of them, that comes out to maybe 2 a day, possibly less. burra uses helpers and doesnt do all the work himself, just as some semi custom/production shops here in america use shop hands and apprentices to make some of their blades here.

and from half a world away, having never met the man, i would have no idea how he works, or how many blades he can produce in a day.
 
munk said:
I have a sense there is something else going on that isn't being spoken.>>>>>medbill


Bill, I appreciate this insight and the quality way you brought it up.



munk
Click to expand...

medbill Munk your both right and insightful. Let me be blunt I have found a American maker that works in hand forged carbon steal that charges as much as 10 times what HI does and still produces what in MY OPINION is a better value.

This maker is not alone. I would rather own one knife that make smy soul sing than a dozen that don't. Or at least no longer do.
 
bigjim said:
Let me be blunt I have found a American maker that works in hand forged carbon steal that charges as much as 10 times what HI does and still produces what in MY OPINION is a better value.
Click to expand...
Let me be the first to congratulation you in your newly found contentment, but there's no reason to sling mud here. If you don't mind, I'd be interested in finding out who this maker is, since I'm sure he does great work. Thanks.
 
I would rather own one knife that make smy soul sing than a dozen that don't. Or at least no longer do.>>>>>>>>>


More power to you. Come back and post some picts after you've used it, we'd like to see them.



munk
 
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