Let's talk blade thickness

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Nov 7, 2011
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There appears to be a demand for ever-thicker blade stock in production knives. Not sure if a single factor is driving this, but a theory based on talking to people, reading knife marketing material, and chatting in BF forums, is that there's a common idea that "thicker is better." Maybe this was sparked by the 'survival' and 'hard use' marketing trends, which have grown fast the last 20 years or so. The stereotypical case of a knife like this is the 'sharpened prybar' concept, typically a blade of 0.20 to 0.25 or thicker stock, promoted as being an all-purpose survival knife that you can pry, dig, hack, and chop with, in addition to using for more mundane knife tasks. This trend also influences folders, you hear the term "overbuilt" and with some production folders--some ZT models are good examples--you see really thick blade stock.

My theory is that for most common knife usage (kitchen, utility, hunting, EDC, etc.) we actually might want to return to "thinner is better" (when I say thinner, I mean compared to the quite thick blades that are so popular today). I think in many cases, we could use thinner blade stock, and lower angle grinds on things as well for the ways most of us commonly use our blades. Recently I was blown away to compare a cheap little Kershaw Chill with super thin blade stock, to a $240 "overbuilt" ZT folder with a super thick primary grind and over 0.160 at the spine. Now, I like both of these knives for different reasons. But when it comes to actual cutting/slicing performance in common tasks, that little Kershaw blows the ZT out of the water (both have recently sharpened 15 dps nice edges on them). Name a cutting or slicing task, the Kershaw does it better. No question, not even close. And I've heard this from multiple users on the thick ZT grinds, esp the 0561 and 0562 blades. This is why Josh at Razor Edge knives does a massive business regrinding these. :) Finally, I've also noticed these thinner blades are just faster and easier to sharpen, so there's another reason to consider returning to more thin blades.

One last observation. Recently I visited a museum in the Midwest. It featured 19th century life, including tools and cutting implements used by both farmers/settlers, and by the Native Americans who lived in the area. Here's something that impressed me: a lot of the Native American stone-based cutting tools were QUITE thin. Surely they needed robust tough tools for certain digging/chopping tasks too, but when it came to cutting tasks, those folks were very practical and went "mostly thin" with their knives.

So there it is: For general purpose knives, should we promote a return to thinner blade stock, as well as lower sharpening angles, for improving cutting performance and ease of maintenance?
 
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I do not see the demand for thicker stock. Rather, I see the opposite. From recent Busse offerings to the upcoming CPK FK 2.0 to most of what Phil Wilson offers. Even BluntCut MetalWorks BluntCut MetalWorks of BMW. Even if thicker stock I used, the grind from makers such as Josh Gallardo can compensate by taking the edge down thin. 0.15 AEB-L with a hollow makes for a wicked slicer. I suppose it depends on the makers who you target as Kershaw and ZT have never and will likely never be on my list...
 
I don't know which way the trend wind is blowing. Production knives tend to run thicker just to avoid warranty hassles with uninformed/careless users. The (maybe) growing popularity of choppers certainly promotes thick stock.

Stock thickness is one of those things you come to really appreciate and discriminate as your tastes and knowledge base forms over time. Then when you seek a thinner knife, you find they aren't so easy to find in your desired model, and you (I) end up seeking out customs. Experimenting and trying different combos of blade geometry for given tasks...keeps it interesting.

My most recent purchase was 2mm thick and 0.010 behind the edge. I don't think I would have had such an appreciation for it when I was newer to knives.
 
Thicker stock allows for dramatic surface contours, deeper plunge lines etc. Knives that are too thick are only good for opening 55gal drums using multiple overhand stabbing.

I have only seen one knife that broke due to (possibly) being ground too thin, and if you drop a knife 4 ft on a concrete floor I guess there are no guarantees if it lands dead on the tip.

Thin is sharp. If it can't cut the first slice out of an apple without splitting the thing, the edge is too thick.
 
As I commonly say, cutting tools should be as thin as is consistent with requisite strength, and no more than that. Unless splitting/wedging forces are actually desirable, of course.
 
I've grown to HATE thick-bladed knives, in my uses. If I need or want anything sturdy enough to chop/baton with, I'll just use an axe or a cleaver. And for prying, a prybar; or at least an old, beater screwdriver. I have plenty of modern 'tactical' knives with thick blades; but I almost never carry or use them.

THIN is where it's at, for the type of effortless cutting I like in my own uses. My favorite knives are almost universally those with the thinnest grinds (Case, Opinel, Victorinox, for example).

Another bonus: thin blades are SO MUCH LIGHTER in the pocket. :)


David
 
From my perspective "thin is in". I prefer to make knives that are as thin as they can be for the job at hand. 8" chef's knife is a good example. When I first started making knives, I would use .125" blade stock. Now, I find that way too thick for a chef's knife, much preferring .060"-.080". However, if the edge geometry is thin, then a "thicker than necessary spine" may not detract too much from cutting ability. I think most all knives should be as thin as they can be, but still have the strength to get the job done. Many people (myself included) would be surprised at how well a thin knife will hold up during it's intended usage, or even unintented usage. Rarely do I buy a knife, but when I do, the first thing I look at is the spine thickness and edge thickness (which is rarely given, if ever). Then I consider the company's heat treat reputation, then the steel.

Recently I thinned the edge geometry of a Kershaw Leek (13c26). It's edge retention was OK before, but now it holds that edge even better.
 
Rambling (didn't started but turned into so) ...

Engineering and technology are steadily marching forth, which has inversely affect to our need for cutting stuff by ourselves.

On one hand, credit to certain percent of edge loving people - tried to broaden knife capabilities into structural tools areas (for bulk, pry, etc..) by increase knife dimensional and edge thickness.

In this view, efficiency doesn't matter as much because of its low utility. More important to ask/evaluate - whether the edge is still properly cutting as a working knife? When it excell in mashing/prying/structural_tasks and poor in cutting, it is no longer a knife.

A proper design of a thicker knife must retain its primary function relative to tasks - i.e. cutting. for example, a pocket knife with 1/4" thick spine, zero grind at 5dps, micro bevel 15dps will cuts shallow material well but subjected to higher wedging in deeper cuts.

Objects that don't have working(engineering view point) edge as their primary function, thereby they are not knives even in KSO appearance. It is not a clear line but gray area what&where 'working' apply/mean but highly correlated to task. e.g. I would consider thick chopper with edge geometry: 25dps, 0.025"BET as KSO for non-bruising cut tomatoes/melons/etc.

On the other hand, KSO might accelerate the shrink rate of knife user population because KSO offers very low value proposition for & in society. Celebrate/thanks the bulk% of edge people slow-down the shrinkage rate of knife population in today world by own+use+teach+example about appropriateness of edge tools.
 
Today many persons coming into knives do so because of Bush Craft. Thus, malleting is a desire with them. Hence, a thick blade is needed.
For these guys a thin blade may see damage. But for cutting purposes a thin blade works best. DM
 
Today many persons coming into knives do so because of Bush Craft. Thus, malleting is a desire with them. Hence, a thick blade is needed.
For these guys a thin blade may see damage. But for cutting purposes a thin blade works best. DM

This is why, when people get practical and actually start USING a knife for real woods and camping work (rather than fantasizing about survivalist scenarios that will never occur), you find people using skinny bladed knives like Moras. :)

I recently just purchased a Bradford Guardian 4 for backpacking, which I really like, but I'm finding even THAT is a bit too thick for my taste, and looking for a better slicer for mundane hiking and backpacking tasks.

The leading candidate in my collection? My extremely skinny bladed Spyderco Mule Team knife, a measly 3.5" and 0.118 blade stock. That on the belt for almost everything, and the Junglas 2 (8" verison) in the pack for wood splitting and chopping. Another really nice, skinny slicer that I'm seriously looking at, the Southfork by Phil Wilson.
 
Today many persons coming into knives do so because of Bush Craft. Thus, malleting is a desire with them. Hence, a thick blade is needed.
For these guys a thin blade may see damage. But for cutting purposes a thin blade works best. DM

In much of Europe kindling is traditionally made by batoning a billhook, most with blades only about 1/8" thick and with hidden tapered tangs. :)
 
thickness is relative. for the kitchen, 1/16"/1.5mm for paring knives, slicers, and vegetable cleaver(Chinese cleaver). 3/32"/2mm for heavy kitchen knives, 1/8" or 5/32" for heavy cleavers. I have made some test paring knives from 1/32"(0.32") material, they slice like a laser. i try to keep the weight of 4" paring/utility knives below 2 oz. and i have an 8" chef's knife that is just 3oz.
 
I've grown to HATE thick-bladed knives, in my uses. If I need or want anything sturdy enough to chop/baton with, I'll just use an axe or a cleaver. And for prying, a prybar; or at least an old, beater screwdriver. I have plenty of modern 'tactical' knives with thick blades; but I almost never carry or use them.

THIN is where it's at, for the type of effortless cutting I like in my own uses. My favorite knives are almost universally those with the thinnest grinds (Case, Opinel, Victorinox, for example).

Another bonus: thin blades are SO MUCH LIGHTER in the pocket. :)


David

Your last is a super good point, esp for the EDC folks tired of having their pants dragged down by the weight of another "overbuilt" folder. :-)

Thin is in.
Skinny is inny.
Ok I'll stop now.
 
I'd prefer a thinner slicing folder/flipper but some companies refuse. That's what re-grinds are for :)

Amen to that. In fact, this very weekend my ZT 0561--a knife that I love but whose cutting performance I HATE, it cuts like a brick :-) --is getting packaged up and sent off to Josh at Razor Edge Knives for a regrind. It kind of stinks though that you have to spend over $100 to get your blade right on something that, you'd think (fundamental cutting performance) would've been dialed into the factory grinds. The fact that it wasn't, and that this "thick blade" trend continues with so many otherwise popular and well built production folder models, indicates that there's a lot of folks out there who think they want a really thick-bladed folding knife.
 
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