Let's talk civil unrest/war weapons.

studio said:
Opinion: Superior firepower and aggresive posture allows a group to control the tempo of the engagement. Fancy way of saying more rounds downrange equals more hits on target.
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With respect, that hasn't addressed my query, I probs didn't explain it well. Never mind.

You would be filling the target full of holes, an explosive projectile would make the target disintegrate with less overheads and more capacity....at least how I see it from vast experience and training competence watching Hollywood war movies.
 
Houlahound said:
With respect, that hasn't addressed my query, I probs didn't explain it well. Never mind.

You would be filling the target full of holes, an explosive projectile would make the target disintegrate with less overheads and more capacity....at least how I see it from vast experience and training competence watching Hollywood war movies.
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Killing something is only part of the goal. Another important factor is to control the engagement. If I am firing a one minute stream of controlled bursts, you can rest assured that everyone close to the point of impact is taking cover. Which gives your side a better opportunity to advance.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
Killing something is only part of the goal. Another important factor is to control the engagement. If I am firing a one minute stream of controlled bursts, you can rest assured that everyone close to the point of impact is taking cover. Which gives your side a better opportunity to advance.

n2s
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I am talking about those big BRRRRRRT guns like on an A-10. Never seen one used to make the target duck behind a tree, it's more like annihilation everything time.

Again I am only speaking from arm chair experience watching Hollywood movies and YouTube clips.
 
Our unit was a (Kassel)few miles from the iron curtain where a few millions of Warsaw Pact were stationed. We had the Vietnam war then and several terrorist groups would like to kill "western allies"
You had the Bader Meinhoff group , the RAF =Rote Armee fraction, the CCC =Cellules communistes combatants.
At every moment all the tanks, jeeps, trucks were ready to start. Life ammo was there. Then we had alerts you never knew if it was for "real".
We were lucky, the US soldiers in Nam had a much harder life.
 
Houlahound said:
Dumb question from a non millitary guy: why are millitary fanatics so obsessed and gushy about these machines with crazy high rates of fire of discrete projectiles.
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It's the prohibition effect. The people are told they can't have something, and that automatically increases the desirability of such as a reflective response.
 
The original post was in October 2020 with nothing posted by OP since then. Where did he spend his $1000?

Survival is a function of tools/skills/physical and mental health.
Suggestion re skills.
1. the basic ergonomic movements in knife fighting/sword fighting/kendo/escrima are the same.
2. if you desire the basic skills, the easiest instruction to find is basic escrima. Within a couple months, you can have the basic movments down and then it is up to you to imagine scenarios and your reactions to them.

Suggestion re other skills
1. you should consider seeking instruction in situational awareness. I mean beyond taking an animal tracking class from Tom Brown.
2. there are classes that you have to seek out in individual and group mantracking, the use of optics and seeing in rays instead of scanning.
3. when the young American plains Indians first went on raids, they did not participate. They did not fight. They observed. They were instructed. you should consider finding people who will teach the basics of situational awareness and then go on from there to teach yourself.. forget the hoary mantra of "don't take a knife to a gunfight". learn how it might be necessary to do so and how to do it.
 
bdcochran said:
The original post was in October 2020 with nothing posted by OP since then. Where did he spend his $1000?

Survival is a function of tools/skills/physical and mental health.
Suggestion re skills.
1. the basic ergonomic movements in knife fighting/sword fighting/kendo/escrima are the same.
2. if you desire the basic skills, the easiest instruction to find is basic escrima. Within a couple months, you can have the basic movments down and then it is up to you to imagine scenarios and your reactions to them.

Suggestion re other skills
1. you should consider seeking instruction in situational awareness. I mean beyond taking an animal tracking class from Tom Brown.
2. there are classes that you have to seek out in individual and group mantracking, the use of optics and seeing in rays instead of scanning.
3. when the young American plains Indians first went on raids, they did not participate. They did not fight. They observed. They were instructed. you should consider finding people who will teach the basics of situational awareness and then go on from there to teach yourself.. forget the hoary mantra of "don't take a knife to a gunfight". learn how it might be necessary to do so and how to do it.
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He didn't make it. Press R for respect.
 
Someone is always posting the wisdom about not bringing a knife to a gunfight or putting a lot of rounds down range is best.
Ok. Example 1 - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nypd-84-shots-brooklyn_n_55ec4b31e4b093be51bbb978. 83 of 84 shots missed by trained police officers.
Example 2. Rural Nevada. Perp hides behind mother with shotgun at front door and fires 4 rounds at male deputy and is about to execute him with shot #5. Female partner puts 12 of 13 rounds into the perp.
Giving a person a gun or a knife does not impart skills. Today, I gave the following knives to three sets of family relatives: Moras/Shrades/Smith and Wesson/Saks/Kershaws. Not one of them will ever pay for training or even attend a free class. When shtf, if they place some in the family car now, they will have a usable tool . That is all. Or, if I happen to be there, I will a tool I know how to use.
 
Alright. So back towards a more serious sort of discussion related to this topic.

If a person found themselves in this sort of situation, where fleeing from danger wasn't an option and they had to shelter in place, what course of action does the average person take? Those who have blacksmithing skills, and access to good quality steel that can be heated and hardened aren't the average, everyday person. What about those of us who don't have such at their disposal? What does a person do when all they have access to is mild steel plates and crappy pine wood to work with?

As we've seen in the last year, once supply chains break down, getting the stuff you need for best results is no longer a viable suggestion.
 
Charlie_K said:
Alright. So back towards a more serious sort of discussion related to this topic.

If a person found themselves in this sort of situation, where fleeing from danger wasn't an option and they had to shelter in place, what course of action does the average person take? Those who have blacksmithing skills, and access to good quality steel that can be heated and hardened aren't the average, everyday person. What about those of us who don't have such at their disposal? What does a person do when all they have access to is mild steel plates and crappy pine wood to work with?

As we've seen in the last year, once supply chains break down, getting the stuff you need for best results is no longer a viable suggestion.
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War hammer, war club, and pine pitch flamethrower and pine pitch fire grenades.
 
Mecha said:
War hammer, war club, and pine pitch flamethrower and pine pitch fire grenades.
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An analysis was done of the mode of death in the unfortunate Burundi situation. I am not going to post the statistics. The overwhelming number were from machete strikes trailed by hoes. Few gunshots. Very few by grenades or hanging.
 
bdcochran said:
The original post was in October 2020 with nothing posted by OP since then. Where did he spend his $1000?

Survival is a function of tools/skills/physical and mental health.
Suggestion re skills.
1. the basic ergonomic movements in knife fighting/sword fighting/kendo/escrima are the same.
2. if you desire the basic skills, the easiest instruction to find is basic escrima. Within a couple months, you can have the basic movments down and then it is up to you to imagine scenarios and your reactions to them.

Suggestion re other skills
1. you should consider seeking instruction in situational awareness. I mean beyond taking an animal tracking class from Tom Brown.
2. there are classes that you have to seek out in individual and group mantracking, the use of optics and seeing in rays instead of scanning.
3. when the young American plains Indians first went on raids, they did not participate. They did not fight. They observed. They were instructed. you should consider finding people who will teach the basics of situational awareness and then go on from there to teach yourself.. forget the hoary mantra of "don't take a knife to a gunfight". learn how it might be necessary to do so and how to do it.
Click to expand...
Ya know. I didnt. I really took stock at what I had and my Ontario 1-18SBK 24" slab of 1095 machete and my TOPS Survtac 7 also 1095 I think could do the trick between the two.

I was just reading through the pages..... I like how this thread progressed
 
Charlie_K said:
Alright. So back towards a more serious sort of discussion related to this topic.

If a person found themselves in this sort of situation, where fleeing from danger wasn't an option and they had to shelter in place, what course of action does the average person take? Those who have blacksmithing skills, and access to good quality steel that can be heated and hardened aren't the average, everyday person. What about those of us who don't have such at their disposal? What does a person do when all they have access to is mild steel plates and crappy pine wood to work with?

As we've seen in the last year, once supply chains break down, getting the stuff you need for best results is no longer a viable suggestion.
Click to expand...
Buy now. 1095 is a great working steel and can still be had. Super easy to maintain in the field. Seal everything but the edge in pine tree sap for corrosion Resistance or something with a good coating....

If you wait till it really goes sideways a good 5160 spring steel isnt the end of the world. Make sure you have atleast a blacksmith hammer on hand and you could get a working blade with a bucket of water and a bucket of rotella 10-40 dino oil.


Thats the great thing about steel. As long as all you could find wasnt s90v its probably going to be able to be worked over in the field.

A forging fire wouldnt be hard to make , holding temp is the trick but after a few attempts you could probably beat something semi dangerous out of a length of 3/4 rebar ya found as long as you got the BS hammer
 
charlie K , daggers and spearheads work fine using mild steel, they have proven very effective in prison. i think using firearms in a situation like that will just alert others far away where the problem is and possibly add to the problem you already have. i read somewhere the ghurkas would swipe off your head with a kukri so you cant yell and alert others :)
 
Charlie_K said:
Alright. So back towards a more serious sort of discussion related to this topic.

If a person found themselves in this sort of situation, where fleeing from danger wasn't an option and they had to shelter in place, what course of action does the average person take? Those who have blacksmithing skills, and access to good quality steel that can be heated and hardened aren't the average, everyday person. What about those of us who don't have such at their disposal? What does a person do when all they have access to is mild steel plates and crappy pine wood to work with?

As we've seen in the last year, once supply chains break down, getting the stuff you need for best results is no longer a viable suggestion.
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An excellent question.
1. the best tool is your mind.
2. the original question was about weapons and then into knives.
So, let's use your imagination.
a. with a concrete sidewalk and time, you can convert a table butter knife into a sharp knife.
b. the Japanese peasants who were denied access to "weapons" used digging tools and hand cultivating tools as weapons. I have them.
c. you can go to Home Depot and build indestructible escrima sticks out of cast iron water pipe with ends caps. Under $20.
d. you can take a mop handle and by pressing sheet metal together in any number of ways, create a spear. I have walking sticks and spears made this way. Some handles have pressed sheet metal, others have points or rubber caps.
e. I have a damaged hatchet handle which can become a club. I don't need another home constructed hatchet. If you give me sheet metal, some 550 cord, twine, electrical tape and the damaged hatchet handle and a bit of thinking time, I would come up with an effective hatchet for several blows.
f. You can buy an Ontario Old Hickory Butcher knife in a leather Ka-bar leather sheath made in Mexico and have a very good hunting knife for under $30 delivered.
3. I don't think that you should want to wait until shtf to make a few efforts at figuring something out now that might work. Too many people think that they are going to be reloading ammunition, walking around hunting deer all day and making weapons only after shtf. Someone will have to stand watches. Someone will get sick. Someone will have to repair clothes. Just don't wait to experiment around. That crummy club may go to someone else in your survival circle who has even fewer skills.
 
Considering that everyone here (myself included) has more knives than fingers and toes, I don't think having access to hardened steel is going to be a problem. If it gets to the point where the Biden family is going door to door and confiscating everyone's folders and fixed blades like trick-or-treaters, then I'm pretty sure y'all will have buried your prized knives in a cache tube before then. If not then it's your own fault you're trying to smelt tuna cans in a cowfart-powered forge.
 
I like how so many people in these conversations think they solve every problem with the statement that they are just going to a rural remote area and hunt, fish, eat Wildberry etc.

Have any of these hunter gatherers stopped to calculate how much land is required and how many ecosystems need to be in place in order for one human to survive indefinitely, assuming they meet all steep fitness and knowledge requirements required for survival?

Simply put there isn't enough of a natural environment left to support thousands or even hundreds of people for any length of time unless you plan on eating each other. There only fragile, fragmented remnants of ecosystems. Nature isn't abundant anymore, it's barely hanging on.

Indigenous populations were sparse for a reason - nature could not support them growing exponentially like we have in modern technological chemical farming and mining based societies.
 
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I live in Germany, so guns are not my first LOD. I live in a quite suburban/rural area outside of a city. So if there would be unrest and the hordes of hungry white collar workers try to raid my garden for food, I could maybe bring down 3-5 with my Cold Steel machete, my wife would use the sharpened spade she uses to cut roots in the earth, so maybe we could fight off some attackers, before we get overwhelmed and eaten alive 😁😁😁

However the bigger and much closer threat is the climate change. I live around 50 miles away from the big and deadly flooding we had recently. If those clouds would have been a bit more easterly, my cellar would have been a swimming pool that tries to electrocute me... the last three years were so dry that just the slightest spark would start a forest fire. So many things you cannot fight off with a sharp blade or a gun.

--> Btt: I have a wonderful tried an tested Cold Steel Machete, that delimbs thicker branches without an issue, so defending yourself with a bit of reach is possible. Garden Tools (spades, long handled weeders) are also very effective and most untactical looking. And by working with these tools in your garden, you'll actually train how to use them effectively:)
 
Wasty said:
I live in Germany, so guns are not my first LOD. I live in a quite suburban/rural area outside of a city. So if there would be unrest and the hordes of hungry white collar workers try to raid my garden for food, I could maybe bring down 3-5 with my Cold Steel machete, my wife would use the sharpened spade she uses to cut roots in the earth, so maybe we could fight off some attackers, before we get overwhelmed and eaten alive 😁😁😁

However the bigger and much closer threat is the climate change. I live around 50 miles away from the big and deadly flooding we had recently. If those clouds would have been a bit more easterly, my cellar would have been a swimming pool that tries to electrocute me... the last three years were so dry that just the slightest spark would start a forest fire. So many things you cannot fight off with a sharp blade or a gun.

--> Btt: I have a wonderful tried an tested Cold Steel Machete, that delimbs thicker branches without an issue, so defending yourself with a bit of reach is possible. Garden Tools (spades, long handled weeders) are also very effective and most untactical looking. And by working with these tools in your garden, you'll actually train how to use them effectively:)
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Are these floods more likely now, the idea the Earth is experiencing more extreme weather his not supported by data over long time scales.
 
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