Lignum Vitae...

[alejandrino]

Okay, thanks for everybodys input. Guess it is not as hard as I thought. Yes, it also would not float.

 

[jdm61]

Lignum is one of those woods that you couldn't stabilize even if you wanted too....lol It is the densenst wood around and may be one of the hardest, but I will tell you this. It is EXTREMELY easy to wrk when it is "fresh" The sawdust has the look and consistency of something like yellow cake crumbs. It is MUCH easie to work when you fist cut into it than ironwood and it doesn't have that nasty habit of cracking like ironwood, snakewood or ebony. Perhaps the only downside is you can not predict what color it will end up. It starts out light and if you oil it, it gets much darker, but eventually will lighten up again, but nowhere near as light as when you started, if that makes any sense. I would think that it would right near the top for a natural handle materiel for a hard use knife. As for figure, the previous poster wa correct. it has some very dramatic growth rings that would make it very curly looking. I don't have any pieces big enough to crosscut like that, but I sure want to try it in the future. The figure on the straight cut stuff I have is pretty straight, but quite noticable. i think it would look very good quarter sawn too.

 

[jeremyjadams]

Acording to Prince William County Verawood is harder than LV at 4600!


In a book I bought "The Encyclopedia of Wood" it says that LV is very difficult to glue. Is that because it is oily? Anyone who has used this (ahem.. STR) how did you attach the wood and what was your experience?

Also in the book is says that there is medium movement in service (LV that is). Why would such a hard, dense, heavy, oily wood that has such resistance to bending, impact and crushing be subject to movement?

In my book it says that Brazilwood (Caesalpinia echinata) is heavier, and just as highly resistant to bending, impact, and crushing. But on the janka scale it is only 3200. But it is "very stable in use" and easily glued.

If brazilwood is heavier(acording to my book) than Lignum Vitae, and just as resistant to impact, bending and crushing. It is just stiff, dense and hard to work.... then why would it be so much less than LV? If anything I would have thought that it would be close, or slightly harder.

 

[STR]

Lignum is my favorite for a couple reasons. One is it just polishes up so nice and so easily that its a joy to work with even if it does tend to clog up sand paper pretty quick. It is hard wood but I don't believe its as hard as ironwood or others because you can indent Lignum with your thumbnail easier. I have a harder time indenting woods like Birch and Snakewood so those are probably harder as far as that goes.

One of the reasons it was never used for the sealed water tight parts of boat construction was due to the oily nature and the fact that no glues worked with it. This has proven to be true for many that have worked with it over the years also. I had about given up on trying to glue it at all using anything until I discovered Goop. If you glue it use that stuff. I believe you'd need a small crane to remove it bonded with Goop to a titanium liner. It stuck very well and when pinned besides I can't believe it will ever move on you.

Actually I've never had any move on me at all even without glue. I'm not sure what that is all about. It may relate to its use as a bushing or something.

To my knowledge and after speaking with every wood pro I know Lignum is considered the heaviest densest wood on the planet. 80 to 84 pounds per cubic foot. You have to watch some of the books and look at the Latin or common names reference. Many times I've found that when a wood is listed especially by foreign print that they are in fact referring to Lignum under one of its many many alias names of which there are so many I can't even name them all.

STR

 

[rhrocker]

I've got a mallet or two made from LV. They're to heavy for my liking so I just stick with Mesquite mallets that I make.

 

[John R. Fraps]

LV makes a really good handle on a knife. It isn't particularly beautifu, but really fine strength and , subteally, patterned also....
I have more than I will use in this lifetime, but " I'll use it!"...so use and enjoy...it is good stuff......

 

[jeremyjadams]

STR, others where do you get your wood?

I noticed that a lot of LV on ebay in small print admits that it isn't "real" LV. I hate that... either it is LV or it isn't. But if someone on ebay claimed to sell me a peice of LV.... I don't know if I could tell or not. So where do you guys get wood from that you can trust, and hopefully doesn't have heart attack inducing prices.
TIA

 

[STR]

Not Ebay! I got some of the best stuff I've found ever from knife and gun finishing supplies a few years back. I was on a wait list for like two years and got a call from them last week informing me that they got a limited supply in of it. I bought a good bit but give them a call and get some. I am very happy with what they sold me. Its some good stuff.

The stuff in the pictures of that Stretch came from Exotic Wood group which is also a good place.

And Colco fine woods in Memphis had a huge stump of lignum that was so massive it takes a fork lift to move it around and it struggled with it. Its very old and dark. Nearly chocolate brown heart wood. I bought a little of it and used it all up. It was the hardest lignum I've handled but at $60 a board foot at the time which was quite a while ago I didn't get much.

STR

 

[Pipeman]

Lignum Vitae goes by many names. It is the heaviest densest wood on planet earth. I bought one board foot of this wood at Colco Fine Woods in Memphis Tenn. years ago and was quite surprised at how extremely heavy and desne this small amount of wood was when the guy handed it to me. Everyone I showed it to after that and told to pick that up was simply amazed. You know its dense when it sinks like a rock in water the way this stuff does. Still it machines well and certainly ranks as my favorite wood for knife handles.

Lignum has a long time history for marine uses. It is still used to make bushings that last over 50 years as well as drive shafts for V8 engines on boats that sit submerged in salt water all the time and pully wheels and sheaves in sailing vessels. Judges gavels are still made from it stemming from the 'Admiralty law traditions' and many marine utensil handles are made from it due to its anti fungal and bacteria resistant nature.

For knife handles its feathering depth and beauty is stunning at times and it polishes up like a rock. Like many woods it oxidizes a bit and can get darker over time with heart woods being a deep chocolate with feathers of green and off shades of stripes throughout. You can darken it in a few hours in direct sunlight also. I love it! Here is a fine sampe of some I picked up a while back from Exotic wood group used on a forum members Stretch rebuild in ti liners with lignum overscales.

STR

I am a Sailmaker by trade and have many hand tools make from lignum all over 135 years old and in mint condition even though they were used for over 100 of those years. I also have a tool chest full of Pear shaped lignum from 3 inches x 2 inches to 8 inches x 5 inches used for flaring the ends of lead pipes. Probably about 100 lbs for 10 bucks at an auction. ;-)))))
Some day they will be knife handles.

Robin

 

[scottickes]

STR, others where do you get your wood?

I noticed that a lot of LV on ebay in small print admits that it isn't "real" LV. I hate that... either it is LV or it isn't. But if someone on ebay claimed to sell me a peice of LV.... I don't know if I could tell or not. So where do you guys get wood from that you can trust, and hopefully doesn't have heart attack inducing prices.
TIA

I get mine from a company in Portland, Oregon called Crosscut Hardwoods. They also have locations in Seattle, WA and Eugene, Oregon. They advertise themselves as the "Candystore for woodworkers". They have usually 80 different kinds of exotic woods in stock at any one time. I stop in about once a month and look through their inventory looking for the best figured woods and then once I have it at home, I cut it, age it, and if it can be stabilized I send it off to WSSI.

I've found some incredible wood at this company.

 

[Thomason]

This is one of the Northwoods Scagel reproduction folders that Dirk Potgieter (aka Oupa here on BFC) reworked in Lignum Vitae. The cool thing about it is the wood was found in the attic of William Scagel's Dogwood Nub workshop after his death.

 

[jdm61]

This is one of the Northwoods Scagel reproduction folders that Dirk Potgieter (aka Oupa here on BFC) reworked in Lignum Vitae. The cool thing about it is the wood was found in the attic of William Scagel's Dogwood Nub workshop after his death.

That is the color I got after sanding and oiling LV. I suspect that if you oil it every so often, it will stay that color, which I find quite attractive.

 

[GrizzlyB]

I know this is an old thread, but I like to clarify what the hardest wood on earth is.
At this time, as far is knowledge goes, that is Buloke. Allocasuarina luehmannii with a whoppin 5,060 lbf hardness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

 

[Greenberg Woods]

I know this is an old thread, but I like to clarify what the hardest wood on earth is.
At this time, as far is knowledge goes, that is Buloke. Allocasuarina luehmannii with a whoppin 5,060 lbf hardness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

These numbers are highly debated, and i have never seen them tested. It seems to be a thing people say, but tests and the density of Buloak compared to other woods makes that hardness unlikely.

You have to remember that all woods are made of the same to things. Lignin and cellulose. Thats it. And so density is a good way to measure the strength of a wood, as it means more lignin and cellulose are present. The numbers for buloak do not seem right, and until someone can show me an actual janka test on a buloak sample, i dont believe them.

 

[Greenberg Woods]

I was just browsing ebay and saw a sale for lignum vitae and being advertise as the hardest wood in the world. In my country(Philippines) I used to use a black colored wood we call KAMAGONG and I always thought that nothing could be harder than this! They are now hard to find as people just cut them and never replanted. Part of my fathers house used this and termites could not dent it. I could break cement blocks with it and it was heavy! Does anybody know anything about this ??

The wood you are talking about is a member of the ebony family, known either as Filipino ironwood or Island ebony.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

STR- this begs the question- "WTH were you doing in Memphis??"

 

[GrizzlyB]

These numbers are highly debated, and i have never seen them tested. It seems to be a thing people say, but tests and the density of Buloak compared to other woods makes that hardness unlikely.

You have to remember that all woods are made of the same to things. Lignin and cellulose. Thats it. And so density is a good way to measure the strength of a wood, as it means more lignin and cellulose are present. The numbers for buloak do not seem right, and until someone can show me an actual janka test on a buloak sample, i dont believe them.

You are probably right. It is just the wiki numbers, and those are probably copy paste stuff.
I am a wood worker and have been for the over 40 years. I have seen and tested many samples of wood, and found that there is a lot of difference between woods of the same species. So 1 piece of lignum can be harder then the other, even from parts of the same tree.
I have pieces of Snakewood that are much harder to dent than the pieces of lignum i have.
So, wiki is just 1 source and is not enough to proof anything. It is my experience thou, that some Australian woods are harder than the pieces of Lignum that i have laying around.

 

[Kevin McGovern]

Not to highjack this thread, but since there already is such a variety of information, does Lignum Vitae need to be stabilized??

not only is it not needed. It is completely fruitless, since Lignum (and some of the other really hard woods) wont soak up anything including stabilizing fluid.

 

[MoSmith]

I was just browsing ebay and saw a sale for lignum vitae and being advertise as the hardest wood in the world. In my country(Philippines) I used to use a black colored wood we call KAMAGONG and I always thought that nothing could be harder than this! They are now hard to find as people just cut them and never replanted. Part of my fathers house used this and termites could not dent it. I could break cement blocks with it and it was heavy! Does anybody know anything about this ??

Yes, I know about kamagong. I think another name for it is Macassar ebony. I have a couple of Kali sticks made from this stuff and it is amazingly hard and dense.
My teacher got the sticks for me as his sister was the girlfriend of an illegal logger somewhere in the Philippines. It's a beautiful wood as well.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Just a reminder note to people reading this thread again:
All wood called Lignum vitae is not the same. Argentine lignum vitae is not the same as real lignum vitae.