Like a phoenix? CSC is reborn...

What is going on here?? I thought the whole point was that this was a very small scale collective that would be making limited edition runs of the former CS patterns. Quality would therefore be very good and customers would pre pay their order. To suddenly change the blade steel changes the whole knife! You might as well change the whole pattern too while you're about it...It's a basic and fundamental feature of any knife, its blade. Moreover, I don't recall the former CS actually producing any carbon knives? Certainly not in the Jack or lockback patterns, their knives were various stainless types or D2. Personally, I would not accept this kind of change, if I had already paid for a knife in a given steel I would naturally expect it to be in that steel, can't understand why anything else would be acceptable??
 
Will Power said:
What is going on here?? I thought the whole point was that this was a very small scale collective that would be making limited edition runs of the former CS patterns. Quality would therefore be very good and customers would pre pay their order. To suddenly change the blade steel changes the whole knife! You might as well change the whole pattern too while you're about it...It's a basic and fundamental feature of any knife, its blade. Moreover, I don't recall the former CS actually producing any carbon knives? Certainly not in the Jack or lockback patterns, their knives were various stainless types or D2. Personally, I would not accept this kind of change, if I had already paid for a knife in a given steel I would naturally expect it to be in that steel, can't understand why anything else would be acceptable??
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I'm reserving judgement until I'm sure that wasn't an error on red hills part. I emailed them yesterday about my rams horn order and this blade steel issue, will post up if I hear back.

Also they did use 1095 in the lock back and trapper...maybe more. I have a CSC made pinch lockback branded for Moore Maker in 1095.
 
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Hi All. traumkommode traumkommode ,I simply sent an email to RHC asking to cancel my reserve order. However, Josh at RHC promptly responded with the following:

No sorry about that, that’s a typo, Wally wanted to switch but we told him to keep it 154, they will still be 154,sorry for the confusion. Thanks and let me know if you need anything else.

Joshua Basham
Red Hill Cutlery & Basham Lumber Co. Inc.
as well as The Patton Museum Store

So, I'll chalk this up to growing pains and see what happens.
 
I just received the same e-mail. Sorry I got everyone all worked up, raising the false alarm and all. I was pretty surprised when I saw the change on their website, though.
 
aji1 said:
I just received the same e-mail. Sorry I got everyone all worked up, raising the false alarm and all. I was pretty surprised when I saw the change on their website, though.
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It was obviously due to customer blowback (ie. cancelling orders) that made them backtrack on their decision to change steels. If they had told Wally no straight away, the info never would have made it to the website.
 
aji1 said:
I just received the same e-mail. Sorry I got everyone all worked up, raising the false alarm and all. I was pretty surprised when I saw the change on their website, though.
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No need to apologize. Better than us receiving the wrong steel and having to deal with that.
 
Well, that's good and glad I was wrong about it. A change of steel would've been unthinkable :eek:
 
Bugdoc said:
Hi All. traumkommode traumkommode However, Josh at RHC promptly responded with the following:
No sorry about that, that’s a typo, Wally wanted to switch but we told him to keep it 154, they will still be 154,sorry for the confusion. Thanks and let me know if you need anything else.
Joshua Basham
Red Hill Cutlery & Basham Lumber Co. Inc.
as well as The Patton Museum Store
So, I'll chalk this up to growing pains and see what happens.
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LastRodeo said:
It was obviously due to customer blowback (ie. cancelling orders) that made them backtrack on their decision to change steels. If they had told Wally no straight away, the info never would have made it to the website.
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TYPO!!??
Why did the "typo" occur in the first place if not for extremely shoddy business practices? The "typo" didn't magically appear-someone had to punch the keyboard.
If it was Red Hill's decision that resulted in the "typo", shame on them. If the "typo" was the result of a decision by the CO-OP, then shame on them.
Either way, I call :poop:.
For me, credibility for either remains at ZERO and neither will be getting my $.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a stinkin' duck.
I sincerely hope everyone who has pre-ordered receives an extraordinary and as described product.
OG
 
What makes me upset is, if they are changing the wording of the information for the knives at this late date, they must not be close to being finished. These were originally supposed to be finished back in September, and then it was extended to the end of December. I have been patient, but it is getting ridiculous now. I never thought it would be 2019 before they knives were delivered. Haven't they only made about 60-75 knives since July? I know they only have a couple of guys making them, but come on. At that rate, they will never make a go of it!

Sorry, not trying to be a Debbie Downer..........end rant.
 
Well yes on reflection it wasn't exactly a 'typo' IF and that's a big IF, WG the owner wanted to change the steel but had to relent due to discontent. But how on earth is carbon like 154? No similarities, and as boykinlp boykinlp has just pointed out, they were supposed to be ready nearly three months ago and not exactly a huge order either. I'm sorry but I don't think this is the way to attract new customers, I might be completely wrong though...
 
I'm reserving my judgment for now, but no doubt this is a rocky start to a new enterprise.
 
Shurke said:
I'm reserving my judgment for now, but no doubt this is a rocky start to a new enterprise.
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Agreed. I just talked to Red Hill for about half an hour, and there seems to be a mixture of a lost box of blades in the mail, and then some Wally blaming. I'm gonna wait and see how the knife turns out and then watch to see how production continues after that. But when I hear the kind of blaming that I heard, I can't help but want to know what the other party would have to say...

But if I heard the truth, then Josh at Red Hill has been fighting against Wally trying to change blade shapes and steels (according to Josh, Wally wanted to ditch the sheepsfoots too, after orders were placed, and make all clip points, and then have customers send in their knives to have the blades replaced after the fact)...

A little hard for me to imagine that anyone would seriously consider changing a blade shape or steel after the knife has been paid for and expect it to go over well.

I paid for my ironwood on Nov. 23., And life send to get crazy for a lot of people this time of year. If there's no word by the second week of Jan, which would be 1-month-late, then I'm going refund ops.
 
traumkommode said:
But if I heard the truth, then Josh at Red Hill has been fighting against Wally trying to change blade shapes and steels (according to Josh, Wally wanted to ditch the sheepsfoots too, after orders were placed, and make all clip points, and then have customers send in their knives to have the blades replaced after the fact)...
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Here I go again...
But that validates the point I'm trying to make about credibility.
The whole situation stinks.
Why call the "mistake" a typo? Why not come clean in the first place?
I understand about not wanting to cast aspersions on the CO-OP and wanting to stay loyal to a manufacturer - especially one who is trying to make a come back.
But what about the customer? Doesn't the customer deserve the same loyalty?
Doesn't Red Hill check on the content a manufacturer places on their site before being published?
As for the CO-OP, I understand trying to be as cost effective as possible.
But now they've been got caught with their their finger in the blade steel pie, where might they turn next (behind the scenes) to save a buck?
Glue instead of epoxy? A quicker and cheaper heat treat? Who knows?
Sure, this is an isolated incident involving a manufacturer with apparently dishonest business practices.
But to ME (old and somewhat cantankerous), the credibility for both is down the tubes. I will not put my faith or trust in either one.
That is why neither will get my $ in the future - as if that makes a difference to either one. After all, I'm only one potential customer.
BUT, I'm fairly certain that both the CO-OP and Red Hill are aware of the dissatisfaction from not only myself expressed in this thread, but also from others.
I would be interested to read here any response that either might make to this horrendous situation.
Are they both concerned that an explanation would validate a situation that is already out in the open?
Or are they both content to just hope all the hub-bub dies down?
OG
 
OLd_gUY said:
Here I go again...
But that validates the point I'm trying to make about credibility.
The whole situation stinks.
Why call the "mistake" a typo? Why not come clean in the first place?
I understand about not wanting to cast aspersions on the CO-OP and wanting to stay loyal to a manufacturer - especially one who is trying to make a come back.
But what about the customer? Doesn't the customer deserve the same loyalty?
Doesn't Red Hill check on the content a manufacturer places on their site before being published?
As for the CO-OP, I understand trying to be as cost effective as possible.
But now they've been got caught with their their finger in the blade steel pie, where might they turn next (behind the scenes) to save a buck?
Glue instead of epoxy? A quicker and cheaper heat treat? Who knows?
Sure, this is an isolated incident involving a manufacturer with apparently dishonest business practices.
But to ME (old and somewhat cantankerous), the credibility for both is down the tubes. I will not put my faith or trust in either one.
That is why neither will get my $ in the future - as if that makes a difference to either one. After all, I'm only one potential customer.
BUT, I'm fairly certain that both the CO-OP and Red Hill are aware of the dissatisfaction from not only myself expressed in this thread, but also from others.
I would be interested to read here any response that either might make to this horrendous situation.
Are they both concerned that an explanation would validate a situation that is already out in the open?
Or are they both content to just hope all the hub-bub dies down?
OG
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You know what, you're right. When people offer multiple unrelated reasons for something happening, well... Foowie.

Josh told me that they were supposed to be entering something else as 1095 and these all got entered as it by mistake. But they send like too happy a mistake to come along at the same time you have the knife maker deciding to switch to 1095 steel.
 
While I am disappointed with the delay in receiving what I have ordered, I am more interested in actually receiving it rather than the delay.

IMO, calling Wally Gardiner dishonest is not right.
 
Josh seemed pretty eager to throw him under the bus.

I've been kind of surprised from the get go that they were making these knives in such low volume at this price point. I can't imagine it's anyone's full-time job. I get turned off when the focus gets stuck on a problem, particularly what someone did wrong, rather than saying, "okay, we're off course here, how do we get back."
 
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