Little Pink Bricks for you and me!

T

thombrogan

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Nov 16, 2002
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Based on intellectual curiousity and comments from cbwx34 and yuzuha, I ordered some 1" x 1/8" x 6" stones for my EdgePro from Congress Tools. Got some soft SiC and an 80 grit Ruby. Since my Golden Lobster stone showed me extra coarse SiC can be less fun than expected, I used some 3M 77 adhesive to glue the Ruby hone to the EdgePro stone blank and some acetone to clean up the huge mess I made.

That ruby stone rocks! It cuts faster than EZE-Lap's 150x stone and seems to cut faster than EdgePro's 120x SiC stone (been awhile, so maybe I'm wrong). Reprofiled my ZDP Delica really quickly and the scratches came out going through EdgePro's 220, 320, and 600 grit stones. A slight adjustment for height needed to be made as, per cbwx34, the EdgePro stones are 5/32" thick versus 1/8" thick Congress Tools stones. My EdgePro agreed and even called him 'C_Dawg' to my dismay.
 
matt321 said:
Wonder if the "1/2 Tri. x 6" would fit the Sharpmaker slots? :cool:
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Quite probably! I have a bunch of the 1/2 x 1/4 x 6" stones and they line up just about perfectly with the flats on a sharpmaker rod, so a pair of 1/2" triangle stones would probably fit the Sharpmaker just fine, though they're about an inch shorter than the Sharpmaker rods. The 1/4 x 1/2 stones would also fit perfectly into a Lansky stone holder (if you can get the old stone out without breaking the holder) though are about 2" longer than a Lansky hone.
 
hmm, might try the ruby, moldmaster, and r-max, D8XX doesn't cut fast enough some times (yeah, I'm that impatient)
 
Thom, how is the wear rate on them. Did you get any of the Flex stones? They're slower than the ruby but. though they feel just as hard and stiff as a ruby stone, they produce a really even and fine scratch pattern for their grit due to the slight flexibility of the resin bond (Think they are stiff enough that an edge wouldn't sink into them and cause any problems, but I've got so many waterstones that I've only used them for polishing and haven't tried sharpening with them... might have to band one to a sharpmaker rod and try it out one of these days ^-^).
 
The r-max is very hard so will cut slowly by hand (but reasonably fast in an ultrasonic profiler) The res-cut would probably be faster and you can use it dry, in a pinch.
 
Well, I'm looking for <120 grit, already got that in diamond and SiC. Unless there's some big difference in actual particle size, like I noticed with Norton/Shapton/most everything else grit ratings vs average micron size.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
How does it work as a finishing grit, no refinement.
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I polish every edge I see, so I couldn't tell you.

yuzuha said:
Thom, how is the wear rate on them.
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The wear rate seemed slower than the 120 SiC hones I had used, but that might've been the pink swarf hiding in the fluorescent lighting. Out of habit, I lapped the stone on my 120 grit diamond plate after it was done.

Here's a weird thing: the stone cut faster than the 120 grit SiC I used to use and the 250 grit diamond I usually use, but I could barely hear it. EdgePro's 320 and 600 grit sounded crunchier in comparison.

db said:
How thin did you reprofile to?
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I don't know. If the bottom setting on the Apex is 10 degrees and the next setting is 15, it looked like 12 degrees per side with 13.5-14 degree microbevel. However, the knife was at an angle where the movement arm intersected the blade table of the EdgePro a bit further out, so the actual edge is likely thinner than the listed 28 degrees.

A few days ago, I thought cbwx34 and C-Dawg were the same guy. That's irrelevant, but I did round the "28" degree edge by being too hamhanded with my tape blank and mylar lapping films. I used C-Dawg and Ken123's trip of stropping on paper over glass (also Cliff's, Tai's, and countless others' trick) with diamond paste (differs from Clark's trick in that they don't use glossy paper) and it quickly fixed the edge. It's still not my best work (which involved lighter touches and mylar lapping film), but exceeded my expectations.

zer0sanity said:
Somebody's going to have to try it out
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And zer0sanity's nominees are?
 
I ordered the 60 grit 1 x 1/2 x 6 and two 320 grit 1/2" triangles, so we'll see if they fit the SM
 
yuzuha said:
.... The res-cut would probably be faster and you can use it dry, in a pinch.
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I'm going to order a couple 120 grit Res-cut and try just that. Dry appeals to me at this grit for re-profiling. My luck with the diamonds just hasn't been all that good compared to what others report, not sure why.

Any suggestions for a ultra fine finishing stone from Congress while I'm at it? I'd like a finish that is above the current 600 grit EP stone that is able to handle both soft <60RC and >60RC steels. Or two different stones one for soft and one for hard steels?

Any suggestions appreciated.
 
Congress' Flex stones. They're hard aluminum oxide (gets all steels covered) and their flexible resin bond should leave smaller scratches than even your EdgePro 600 grit stones.

Frankly, I don't see why don't just set and polish a bevel up to 600 on your EdgePro and then finish it with BC or diamond ala Ken123. Maybe even use paper on your tape blank?
 
I'm now going with 600 grit EP then tapes to 1µ and final polishing with either 0.7µ boron carbide or 0.5µ chromium or 0.5µ tape on the EP. This is for very highly refined edges most sharpening I do for most clients doesn't get much beyond 320. There are exceptions of course but they aren't the bulk of my sharpening business, though it's definitely more enjoyable sharpening and polishing to 0.5µ.

I don't use diamond pastes often as I hadn't found a surface sufficient to the task that gives a tactile feed back, that may now be standard copy paper. I've only done 2 knives with this so far but the results are promising with boron carbide and chromium oxide. I've yet to get to diamond on the paper.

I do use diamond pastes in 0.5µ and 0.25µ with extender on glass for some projects and I've tested this out on kitchen knives but this is a pita for sure and a bit wasteful. There is not much feed back working directly on glass.

Basically I've just been searching for a quick cut coarse stone that I can use dry, and as I'm ordering from Congress anyway I might as well try something else as well. It's feeding the habit I suspect. Stones continue to intrigue and pull me in. Still looking for the ultimate, cuts like 80 grit and finishes like a Kitamya 12,000 water stone.

It's like the ultimate edge that will cut down a tree, make a fish trap, and then cut the fish into sushi, all without sharpening for 6 months of course.
 
I did a little bit of testing with some of the stones I got from Congress Tools this a.m. I tried the MoldMaster 80g, MoldMaster 120g, Regular 120g, Ruby 120g, and an EdgePro 120g. In a nutshell, I took an avg. Stainless knife, divided the spine into sections, and used each stone 500 strokes, stopping every 50 strokes to clean off the knife and stone (quick spray) and turn them around.

I haven't figured out a good way to measure the results yet... but subjectively the MoldMaster 80g removed the most metal. The EdgePro 120g was a close 2nd. The Regular 120g and Ruby 120g were a close 3rd and the MoldMaster 120g was a distant 4th, and performed rather poorly.

I did measure the amount of stone wear (several measurements and took an average). The EdgePro 120g lost .001 in., Regular 120g .002, MoldMaster 80g .014, MoldMaster 120g .000, and Ruby 120g, .002. (I haven't figured cost into this.)

If I had to choose based on metal removal vs. stone wear, I'd probably go Edge Pro 120g, Regular 120g, Ruby 120g (a tossup between those 2) and MoldMaster 80g. I wouldn't recommend the MoldMaster 120g... it didn't wear, but it didn't cut well either.

Obviously, this is just one test, and somewhat subjective. It may tell a bit more when I can measure the wear on the knife, and could also change depending on the type of metal. (For instance, would the MoldMaster 120g perform different on a harder steel? etc.)

cbw
 
Cool finds, Curtis!

Despite the hard bonding in the Moldmasters, I'm still under the believe that coarse SiC is a liar, so I ordered a 60 grit 1x1x6 Ruby brick. Gonna shred some Golden, CO and Somewhere, China steel with it. :cool:
 
Cool. I wish I'd ordered the coarser ones to try... probably on the next go round. Hey, if you have any way of documenting before/after thickness, and maybe an idea of how much you used the stone, I'd like the info.

Thanks

cbw
 
how long do they take to process an order? I know I ordered on New Year's Day, but they haven't calculated my shipping yet.
 
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