London mayor declares strict knife policy

robertmegar said:
Who ever thinks it will stop with "Assault Weapons" here in the US is a fool or complicit. The lack of solidarity from the knife community with the gun community is disturbing.
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Why would we put in with the gun community? Guns are weapons, plain and simple. This is the image we are trying to bring knives away from so the general public comes to the understanding that knives are tools.
 
i wish the UK would tell us what kind of knives are used in these assaults. I'm betting that more often than not the knife used is a kitchen utensil.
 
NMpops said:
i wish the UK would tell us what kind of knives are used in these assaults. I'm betting that more often than not the knife used is a kitchen utensil.
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Same as the US: Cheap kitchen knives and screwdrivers. Ask any beat cop or homicide detective in the US, Canada or UK. Same story, crooks do not use fancy expensive knives. They use whatever sharp object is handy, usually using one taken from the scene or stolen.

Know what's even more batty? 1/3 of the murders in the UK are done with the perp's bare hands.
 
Dfunk1210 said:
Why would we put in with the gun community? Guns are weapons, plain and simple. This is the image we are trying to bring knives away from so the general public comes to the understanding that knives are tools.
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Guns are tools as well for hunting. A handgun might be considered more of a weapon but a hunting rifle is a tool.

Both guns and knives are tools that can be used as weapons. Really you can make anything that has an alternative purpose a weapon. A hammer, a 2x4 ,a ashtray. They can all become weapons.
 
needler420 said:
Guns are tools as well for hunting. A handgun might be considered more of a weapon but a hunting rifle is a tool.

Both guns and knives are tools that can be used as weapons. Really you can make anything that has an alternative purpose a weapon. A hammer, a 2x4 ,a ashtray. They can all become weapons.
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Exactly. It's the same nonsense distinctions that say I can own a match, but not white phosphorous. They both create fire. Why should their strength make any difference, as long as they can be applied to the same ends?
 
smh @ anyone who considers a gun a weapon and a knife a tool ...

both are tools used as intended ... both can be weapons used as our twisted human brains can make a rock a weapon ...

no object in and of itself is a weapon it's the person in control of and their intent with it ...

and people have been killing people as long as people have existed ... whether it be with some fancy automatic firearm or bomb or be it with a stone or a sharpened stick or poison ...

if you don't believe that knife rights affect gun rights and vice versa and we are all fighting for out basic human freedoms ... then you are truely missing the whole point of these laws and where they will lead ...

so if you think disasociating from gun rights will help knife rights ... you are walking right into the hole the foolish politicians and people who truely don't understand that violence is a people problem whether it be gun or knife or whips and chains ...

violence has absolutely ZERO to do with what is used to commit the violence with.
 
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Where were 2nd amendment people when bomb materials were banned or regulated over time? Where were they when rocket launchers and mortars and grenades and land mines were made illegal? Where were they when full auto weapons were regulated? And why aren't they marching in the streets to change these laws?

It seems to me that people who say they're for the 2nd amendment really only seem to get in a twist about currently legal, currently for sale weapons, the way one might if, say, one belonged to an industry lobbying organization that made money based on sales.

Yes, you can improvise a weapon out of an ash tray. But they seldom outfit armies with baldoliers of ashtrays, do they? A huge part of the success of getting knives legalized has been educating the public about knives as a tool that can be improvised into a weapon, not as primarily a weapon. Educating people that many illegal features are cosmetic, or for user safety. I like to say, knives are used to feed, to create, to reveal, and to heal. Guns can't fire themselves, but they can't be used for any purpose but killing or mock-killing. You can gather food, if that food needs killing. You can have fun, practicing killing. Or you can kill with them. Those are the options of a weapon, not a tool.
 
And knives can't do any harm without being in someones control ... and we hog hunt with knives no guns ... we kill animals for food with knives ...people can throw knives or carve toys or just whittle ... so that statement holds no weight at all ...

and armies used to be armed with sticks and rocks then swords and spears before guns so again absolutely no logic trying to say its not all connected and basic human rights and in the country our founders realised a necessity ... and all should be fought for
 
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Maybe in the USA linking Second Amendment gun rights to knives might help (or it might not...I don't know, because I don't live there).

In Canada, linking knife ownership to guns would be the single stupidest thing we could possibly envision. ;)
We can own guns, and I sure do, but they aren't something you can carry around all over the place.

Convince the Canadian government to treat knives like guns, and I'd have to get a knife license, and leave my knives at home except for when doing very specific things.

Whereas, with knives being tools I can carry them all over the place using them for all the fun and useful things they are great for. :)
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
And knives can't do any harm without being in someones control ... and we hog hunt with knives no guns ... we kill animals for food with knives ...people can throw knives or carve toys or just whittle ... so that statement holds no weight at all ...

and armies used to be armed with sticks and rocks then swords and spears before guns so again absolutely no logic trying to say its not all connected and basic human rights and in the country our founders tealised a necessity ... and all should be fought for
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It's hard for me to disagree too strongly with a man who flatters me with the sort of trust where he'd allow me to own any kind of imaginable weapon whatsoever, if he had his druthers.

I DO think people should be able to arm themselves with weapons, though I think we'd find disagreements about which and under what circumstances.

But I think you're being absolutely silly by refusing to distinguish between something that's a weapon by design, versus that which can be improvised into a weapon, and how that might affect how people ought to react to those items. Five pounds of pressure on a ballpoint pen will drive it into my neck, but I find drawing out a pen in public less provocative than drawing out an Uzi. This may be yet another point of disagreement between us. Perhaps you'd duck under the table for the pen. Or perhaps the Uzi would scarcely draw your notice.

Where I'd like to get to, is where society would regard a pocket knife, weilded unthreateningly, with the same notice as the pen. And I don't agree that promoting the idea of guns and knives being the same advances that goal.
 
NMpops said:
i wish the UK would tell us what kind of knives are used in these assaults. I'm betting that more often than not the knife used is a kitchen utensil.
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Yes, you are completely right. UK knife crime does not involve high end knives...it is usually craft knives/kitchen knives/any other cheap bit of sharp metal that comes to hand.
The UK government is not targeting criminals with it's latest proposals because criminals don't mail order a knife a few weeks in advance...with their credit card...to their home address...unless they are REALLY stupid and want to get caught.
The new proposals will target everyday honest people because that is easy and when the government publishes the statistics for all of the honestly purchased knives that have been seized they will 'look good' to the paranoid voting populace...and in reality knife crime will not have reduced in the slightest.

...and let us keep in our thoughts and prayers all the small companies that sell knives online in the UK and all the custom makers who are now going to lose their livelihoods if the new legislation comes into force because they can't mail out their products. If previous legislation is anything to go by, there will be absolutely no compensation for the collapse of their LEGITIMATE businesses.

Kawasemi (in the 'knife friendly' UK!!)
 
kawasemi said:
Yes, you are completely right. UK knife crime does not involve high end knives...it is usually craft knives/kitchen knives/any other cheap bit of sharp metal that comes to hand.
The UK government is not targeting criminals with it's latest proposals because criminals don't mail order a knife a few weeks in advance...with their credit card...to their home address...unless they are REALLY stupid and want to get caught.
The new proposals will target everyday honest people because that is easy and when the government publishes the statistics for all of the honestly purchased knives that have been seized they will 'look good' to the paranoid voting populace...and in reality knife crime will not have reduced in the slightest.

...and let us keep in our thoughts and prayers all the small companies that sell knives online in the UK and all the custom makers who are now going to lose their livelihoods if the new legislation comes into force because they can't mail out their products. If previous legislation is anything to go by, there will be absolutely no compensation for the collapse of their LEGITIMATE businesses.

Kawasemi (in the 'knife friendly' UK!!)
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Absolutely. My legal Leek was taken off me in NYC as part of what I would later learn was a PR stunt by the new DA to get a table with 3,000 knives on it for a photoshoot. (Most of which were visibly utility knives or Swiss Army knives.) The officer issuing my summons apologized to me as he did it, and told me he had to take a pearl handled family heirloom off a security guard the previous day. I was convicted of "brandishing a knife in the street" (the pocket clip was exposed), made to pay $160 plus the loss of the knife, and the conviction made me inelligible for census work. I still have to report it on job applications.
 
NMpops said:
i wish the UK would tell us what kind of knives are used in these assaults. I'm betting that more often than not the knife used is a kitchen utensil.
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Apparently near or over 90% of these attacks are with kitchen knives. The other 9.9% are probably box cutters. And .1% with quality knives. Those stats are made up, but I saw a video of a london cop saying that he believes it is between 90-95% kitchen knives.
 
There is case law in the US to the effect that knives are covered by the Second Amendment.
Here, linking the right to own and carry knives will be a 2nd Amendment issue, as States will start to restrict the possession and carrying of knives as England is doing. It will just take some dramatic murders committed with knives to create the emotional fervor among certain people to ban them. "They're inexpensive, unregulated, silent and lethal, we must get rid off them!" will be the cry. It's utter rubbish, but it's coming.
 
Dfunk1210 said:
Why would we put in with the gun community? Guns are weapons, plain and simple. This is the image we are trying to bring knives away from so the general public comes to the understanding that knives are tools.
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not going against you i love knives more than guns but i do hold a soft spot in my heart for guns. couldnt the same argument be made that guns are tools as well? i hate when people call knives weapons for the fact that they are simple tools. i think my point is that there is strength in numbers and while the 2 communities dont have the same things in common when we stand alone we fall alone. #1mindanyweapon
 
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Bigbluefish said:
There is case law in the US to the effect that knives are covered by the Second Amendment.
Here, linking the right to own and carry knives will be a 2nd Amendment issue, as States will start to restrict the possession and carrying of knives as England is doing. It will just take some dramatic murders committed with knives to create the emotional fervor among certain people to ban them. "They're inexpensive, unregulated, silent and lethal, we must get rid off them!" will be the cry. It's utter rubbish, but it's coming.
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its so true, but how do we change this course of action?
 
Matt Bernier said:
Absolutely. My legal Leek was taken off me in NYC as part of what I would later learn was a PR stunt by the new DA to get a table with 3,000 knives on it for a photoshoot. (Most of which were visibly utility knives or Swiss Army knives.) The officer issuing my summons apologized to me as he did it, and told me he had to take a pearl handled family heirloom off a security guard the previous day. I was convicted of "brandishing a knife in the street" (the pocket clip was exposed), made to pay $160 plus the loss of the knife, and the conviction made me inelligible for census work. I still have to report it on job applications.
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this is nuts a leek? are you kidding me there a child killers murderers and rapists walking around nyc doing what ever they want and they bother you over a leek? fuck outta here politicians smh
 
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