Looking for design input on resin bond diamond bench stones

[FortyTwoBlades]

If you sharpen a 240mm gyuto on a 2x6, it will take a little longer and be more awkward then on a 8x3

Mo' stone, mo better.

That's because you have a shorter stroke length on a 2x6 compared to 3x8, not because it's wider...we're talking 8x2 vs 8x3 here, not 8x6...

 

[DeadboxHero]

That's because you have a shorter stroke length on a 2x6 compared to 3x8, not because it's wider...we're talking 8x2 vs 8x3 here, not 8x6...

The passes I do on this 8x3 stone would be less efficient on a 2x8 or 2x6

This is white steel on a 1500 grit stone.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

They wouldn't, but if you prefer an 8x3 that's fine, and valid.

 

[DeadboxHero]

They wouldn't, but if you prefer an 8x3 that's fine, and valid.

Aannd vice versa

 

[CasePeanut]

Could you set up a pass-around? I'd love to try out some of the prototypes and discuss them here.

I've been really enjoying the FortyTwoBlades double-sided Arctic Fox. Having two grits in one stone has been really convenient. Having a medium & fine on the same stone works great for most knives.

 

[Diemaker]

I will absolutely do a pass-around once I have some made, but I pretty much have the diamond/resin mixture down since I have been doing it for a few years now for knives, 15 years or more for stone.

So I am thinking of doing these stones in 1 x 4, 2 x 6 or 8, and 3 x 8 sizes. Two questions!!!! How thick should the 1 x 4 be? I am thinking this one needs some undercut work done to the ends to hold onto and help keep your fingertips below the level of the stone. Next, 2 x 6 or 2 x 8? The difference in price should be $25. Or should I do both?

Retail prices I am thinking of for 650 mesh and finer diamond stones, which may change a little, are:
1 x 4 $37
2 x 6 $75
2 x 8 $99
3 x 8 $149

The coarsest diamond stones will be a bit more. Boron carbide would be a fair bit less and possibly a thicker layer of abrasive. I won't know what I need to charge until I make a few and know how long it takes to make them, I have only made 1 x 6 so far.

 

[annr]

8” x 3”

 

[eKretz]

For the 1" x 4" it might be worth it to go the paddle route like EZE- Lap does for their small ones.

 

[Diemaker]

For the 1" x 4" it might be worth it to go the paddle route like EZE- Lap does for their small ones.

What about a paddle with a spring loaded jaw that would hold EP style mounted stones, like the Matrix stones? That is something I could make up pretty easily. Fully machined hard anodized aluminum.

Another idea, what about a holder to emulate an 8" long bench stone that holds EP style mounted stones? Something that would fit in normal bench stone holders. It would have tapering sides out to a 2" wide base.

 

[CasePeanut]

the 1x4 should fit the KME!

 

[Blues]

What about a paddle with a spring loaded jaw that would hold EP style mounted stones, like the Matrix stones? That is something I could make up pretty easily. Fully machined hard anodized aluminum.

Another idea, what about a holder to emulate an 8" long bench stone that holds EP style mounted stones? Something that would fit in normal bench stone holders. It would have tapering sides out to a 2" wide base.

David, the popular generic style stone holder adjusts for length from about 5 or 6 inches to 8" so that's not a big problem. I lay some of my smaller Spyderco Double Stuff and other small hones on the rubber pads of the stone holder without issue. So bear that in mind.

The ideas are good ones as long as they can be accomplished somewhat economically. If you make up prototypes they will be very interesting to take a look at.

 

[eKretz]

What about a paddle with a spring loaded jaw that would hold EP style mounted stones, like the Matrix stones? That is something I could make up pretty easily. Fully machined hard anodized aluminum.

Another idea, what about a holder to emulate an 8" long bench stone that holds EP style mounted stones? Something that would fit in normal bench stone holders. It would have tapering sides out to a 2" wide base.

Both sound like good ideas.

 

[Blues]

A common stone holder, adjustable for length from 5.5" to 9". The middle section can be moved to accommodate smaller hones.

As I mentioned, I've used it with hones shorter than those used for the Edge Pro. The friction of the rubber alone is sufficient, (for the most part), to hold them in place.

 

[eKretz]

You are misunderstanding his idea. He wants to make a "conversion" unit/holder so that an Edge-Pro sized diamond hone could be placed in a regular stone holder like your picture.

 

[Blues]

I'm not misunderstanding at all. I'm simply providing him with the image and info to help him plan appropriately either for, or around, the use of the stone holder or other accoutrements.

 

[Diemaker]

How well does this holder hold an EP mounted stone for freehand? Does it keep the stone from moving lower as it is used? Both should be easy to prototype and possibly use the same spring loaded locking mechanism. Of course the diamond stones are the top priority.

One more time- How thick should the 1 x 4 stone be??????????????????????????

I will going to the big city next week to recycle aluminum chips and would like to get the material to make some molds and stone bodies while there.

 

[Blues]

Without even adjusting the holder to the length of the Edge Pro 600 grit hone, the friction of the rubber on the aluminum backer plate is sufficient to keep it from moving around. By not adjusting the holder smaller, I have access to the end of the hone.

However, if the holder was adjusted to the 6" length, the hone would need to be raised for the ends to be accessible. (1/2" minimum clearance height.)

I don't think I'd personally care to try to wedge the EP stone between the rubber jaws at a sufficiently high clearance height.

It might work, but to me it wouldn't be worth the bother of trying to maintain proper alignment, (front-back, left-right), for both the sharpening and keeping the water on the hone. That's where your proposed cradle would come in very handy.

(I generally have gotten around this by just leaving the ceramic bench stone in the holder with a thin rubber mat on top to hold the small hone.)




As to your other question, the 1x4" hone is not of interest to me personally, so I'll leave that one to others who would opt for one of that size. I'd go no smaller than a 1x5", like the Double Stuff from Spyderco, or a 1x6" like the Edge Pro.

 

[Diemaker]

Blues, thank you the photos help a lot. It looks like there is a lot of room for improvement and with rubber feet my contraption wouldn't need a holder.

So I am at work today making polishing tape holders for EP, the fun of self employment, and having some ideas. I have no one else to bounce them off so here I am. What if I make stone holders for each size of stone? They would be fully machined aluminum blocks with all edges radiused and then hard anodized, with rubber feet. Think very roughly $35-$65 each. If I am making the stone holders too why not make it so "dovetails" on the stone ends snap into a spring loaded jaw on the stone holder, kind of like EP stones snap into the stone holder on their knife sharpeners? If the holders are heavy enough you could swaps stones with one hand in seconds. These stones will always be expensive, the knives you need them are too, so why not get a really nice stone holder that is designed exactly for your new stones? I would make sure the stones would still work in the stone holder Blues shows above, no reason not to. So, what do you think?

Keep in mind these stones are very long lasting so swarf is only the filing comming off the knife so they are pretty clean to use. More like plated diamonds than stones which make a lot more mess.

Oh, and I could make aluminum bodied leather strops that would snap into the stones holders.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I would appreciate something that snaps in for the smaller stones.

Like a hybrid between this cut down stone holder and a worksharp field sharpener

Blues, thank you the photos help a lot. It looks like there is a lot of room for improvement and with rubber feet my contraption wouldn't need a holder.

So I am at work today making polishing tape holders for EP, the fun of self employment, and having some ideas. I have no one else to bounce them off so here I am. What if I make stone holders for each size of stone? They would be fully machined aluminum blocks with all edges radiused and then hard anodized, with rubber feet. Think very roughly $35-$65 each. If I am making the stone holders too why not make it so "dovetails" on the stone ends snap into a spring loaded jaw on the stone holder, kind of like EP stones snap into the stone holder on their knife sharpeners? If the holders are heavy enough you could swaps stones with one hand in seconds. These stones will always be expensive, the knives you need them are too, so why not get a really nice stone holder that is designed exactly for your new stones? I would make sure the stones would still work in the stone holder Blues shows above, no reason not to. So, what do you think?

Keep in mind these stones are very long lasting so swarf is only the filing comming off the knife so they are pretty clean to use. More like plated diamonds than stones which make a lot more mess.

Oh, and I could make aluminum bodied leather strops that would snap into the stones holders.

 

[Diemaker]

This is what I have so far for how my stones will snap into the stone holders, it is a simple 30 degree dovetail. The top of the dovetail is .25" from the bottom of the stone body so it shouldn't interfere with other stone holders and still work with the 4" stone which won't have as thick of a body. I am thinking the body of the 4" stone should be .35" thick, so far. I am envisioning my stone holders only extending .24" up from the bottom of the stone so they are well out of the way when sharpening. What do you think? Also how do you want the grit ratings set? Microns or mesh?

For reference, this is the 2 x 6 stone that I modeled, with the resin layer on top.