looking for external frame packs

J

JoberSeven

Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
302
hey guys,

i'm looking to buy a back pack for an upcoming backwoods camping trip. i prefer external packs. i'm looking to spend around $200cdn. i can go to 250, but that means more weekends without beer. i've been looking at the following:

red head rh5000 external frame / pack-
ascend ts4500
cabela's alaskan 1
alps outdoorZ 3600018 commander

have any of you had any experience with them? would you recommend them? or can you recommend something similar, for about the same price?

i'm in decent shape, but an inexperienced hiker. i'm going 4 to 6 klicks to first two days, then about 10 the last day. the weight of the pack itself isn't much of an issue for me. i plan to pack light for this trip, but i want the extra room for future trips. I have a family of 5, and a medium sized dog. i will be carrying most of the gear, if i can talk them into coming with next time.

any tips would be greatly appreciated.
 
Whichever has the best return policy. Pack fit is such a personal thing, and the pack matters more than the overall weight, so if you can't really try one in-store, then I'd just start with whatever I could return if it didn't work. There is a reason that a pack is part of the "big three" of camping gear. cutting corners there will really make your life miserable.

As far as packing for a family of 5, you better not be hauling all that gear. Good way to injure yourself. Really keep your pack weight to 25% of your body weight to start. But you will need to have them carry at least something 5 sleeping bags alone would be seriously bulky. Another option if you have a MEC store near you is rentals. worth a look.
 
So you seem to be going big (and 80L is BIG) in anticipation of the family camping trip. Is there any way you can hold off?

I suspect you need a trial run of the family trip with an easy exit strategy and mechanized transport. To dial in everyone's gear. To test the waters to see if you even like family camping. For safe evacuation if something goes wrong. etc.

I'd do the trial run before you get the huge pack. Borrow a pack or make do for the solo outing. You might discover that 80L is more pack than you need.

The huge packs are used by mountaineers doing expeditions up mountains and hunters who need to carry out meat. These are professionals counting every ounce.With packs that size and a family to improperly fill them you will easily surpass the recommended weights and get up into loads that will cause you injury... 25% of you body weight is considered a heavy load for backpacking.

Frankly, with the family, I'd stick to day hikes for convenience. Or car camping for over-nights until the gear is dialed in and the kids are old enough to at least carry some of their own gear. A party of 5, especially beginners, is not going to be packing light (or right).
 
I appreciate the input. i haven't heard the 25% bodyweight recommendation before. like i said, inexperienced....

just for the record, I wasn't planning on hauling all the gear. i figure i'll be hauling a good deal of it. tools and such, plus the dog food... if the teenagers can't carry their own sleeping bags, they can stay on the couch.

they're at the age they won't want to come anyway. the youngest is probably too young for the next few years. and the wife likes her comfy-cozy car camping. so yeah, it'll likely be me and the pooch. and a smaller pack...

thanks guys.
 
A good pack will let you carry a huge weight... for a while, before your knees give out. I've done it more than once, the pack feels good for a while, but you don't realize how much its tiring your out, up until one step just doesn't land right.
 
The old weight number was 75 # .That was 1/2 of the average weight of a soldier .[IIRC that goes back to WWII ]
I met a guy that was very macho , he always had a huge pack with everything including the kitchen sink !! After years of this his feet were ruined and there were other problems !
Learn to carry as little as possible , no non-essential things , nothing you can't do without for a while !
 
With conditioning and ends that justify the means you can go heavier. Since wwII there has been less and less stomach for combat casualties... So the amount of protective gear and other enhancing gear was increased without much thought for those who have to carry it. Injuries went up, deaths went down.

If you are going to go super heavy you have to consider if it is worth it. Here are a few of the first hits from a search on gear load related injuries.

http://www.stripes.com/news/rigors-of-war-leave-troops-battling-arthritis-at-a-young-age-1.156110
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/188986/British-soldiers-suffer-injuries-from-too-heavy-weights
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/weight-of-war-gear-that-protects-troops-also-injures-them/

25-30% is the upper end of where you want to be. Getting to, or even below, 10% is better.

http://gossamergear.com/wp/lightweight-backpacking-conundrum
 
Also if your arms start going numb, or tingly, get the weight off your shoulders, that's nerve damage happening. More for the benefit of anyone cruising through from google, but I think its a good reminder.
 
You'd be hard pressed to find a worse example for recreation packs and pack weight than the Army. I say that from my experience as an Infantryman in the 101st who walked/humped a ruck everywhere.
 
I started backpacking 30 years ago, using a used Kelty external frame pack that I bought from rentals at the local outdoors shop. I liked the external frame pack for carrying load even though it looked ungainly. It seems that these days the external frame packs are not in style any longer. I understand that an internal frame pack is more compact and easier to wear in tight places, but I can't imagine that they carry the weight as well.

I'm heavier than average and liked to carry about 55# or less. My younger, tougher brother in law did some long range backpacking carrying a starting weight of about 65#.

I would suggest renting some gear and doing some test trips before going for a longer trip. 10 clicks sounds like a reasonable distance if you are in better than average shape but there are a lot more variables involved. A co-worker wanted to go on a backpacking trip but had no experience so he enlisted me to plan the trip for him. He had planned 10 or more miles per day, high in the Rockies. I convinced him to cut it back to 7 or 8 miles max. and after the trip he was glad we did.

I would suggest doing a lot of research before going. I read Manning's book and it might still be a good resource.
 
These are the two books you see recommended most often for backpacking gear discussion.

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51K9PQ93JRL._SX309_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
I think the reason external frame packs are out of favor is that they have hit a bit of a tech limit. There are still improvements being made to internal frame packs to bring them up to the same level, but without expensive materials, externals are about as good as they can be. And since they tend to the cheaper end, its harder to market them. If we see cheap carbon fiber, or titanium, externals might make a comeback.
 
There are a some new external frame packs out there that take advantage of new light materials.

Examples:
Vargo ti arc. 36L + a hollow for a bear canister.
Seek outside divide 74L.

Some stuff about more or less modern external frame packs:
http://www.carryology.com/bags/external-frame-backpacks-applying-the-old-ways-to-the-new-journeys-part-3/

Parts 1 & 2 of the above that give historical context on external frame packs.
http://www.carryology.com/bags/external-frame-backpacks-applying-the-old-ways-to-the-new-journeys-part-1/
http://www.carryology.com/bags/external-frame-backpacks-applying-the-old-ways-to-the-new-journeys-part-2/
 
bdmicarta said:
It seems that these days the external frame packs are not in style any longer. I understand that an internal frame pack is more compact and easier to wear in tight places, but I can't imagine that they carry the weight as well.
Click to expand...
I've found with modern suspension systems and if properly fitted, they carry the weight better.
 
There are two main benefits to an external frame pack.

-Airflow to the lower back.
-Ability to carry awkward objects.
 
JoberSeven said:
the weight of the pack itself isn't much of an issue for me. i plan to pack light for this trip, but i want the extra room for future trips. I have a family of 5, and a medium sized dog. i will be carrying most of the gear, if i can talk them into coming with next time.
Click to expand...

You have a family of 5 you say, a dog, and you'll be carrying most of the gear? Good luck! My no. 1 recommendation is leave the wifey n kids at home, take the dog and deal with the kin when you get back from your break LOL.

External frame packs 'Carry Weight Better'. The frame is suspended on you, the pack is attached to the frame - elite weight transfer. A good piece of advice above is the crucial fit of the pack which matters far more than any amount of marketing. If you're carrying 50 lbs+ I'd recommend a hybrid frame such as the ones available from Gregory. If you're not carrying more than 50 lbs, then you really should keep the weight of your pack at 5 lbs or less. Mystery Ranch and Eberlestock are companies providing legendary workhorse packs, but they're heavy, especially in the price tag area. For Ultra Light packs, ZPacks and Gossamer Gear offer the best options regardless of opinions.

All of my gear is UL and modern, except for my 4 lb. Kelty Trekker pack which I've put through the ringer. This pack allows you to adjust torso length and back panel to fit you accordingly. You can score one of these packs for a bit over $100, and then you'll be able to take that case of Bell's Hopslam into the man cave with you when you get back home. :thumbup:

Important things to remember: 1)packs have recommended weight ranges for a reason. 2) shoulder strap position is crucial, you'll have to dial in the vertical and horizontal distances you prefer (I like 2-4 inches for both). 3)With the external frame, your heavy items go up top and close to your spine, whereas with internal frame packs it's proper to put your heavy items down low.

Good luck man, and I hope you become an avid hiker :)

-This is another worthless post brought to you by the "Fake, phony, fufu Pixy."
 
The Kelty Trekker is a good External frame pack and it should be in your price range. Alps Mountaineering also makes some External frame packs.
 
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